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Thread: Who are the Shiia ?

  1. #46

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    more from this moron i mean guy:

    - who besides Muhammad said he was a prophet?
    Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, Zachariah...... pbut all, and the list goes on

    REALLY? WELL THE BIBLE WAS FIRST. AND MUHAMMAD SAID TO LOOK IN THE BIBLE TO SEE WHETHER HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

    AND THERE AINT A SCRIPTURE IN THERE THAT MENTIONS HIM. NOT ONE. IF SO PLEASE POST BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE.

    2- Who prophesied of his coming?

    AGAIN. BOOK, CHAPTER, AND VERSE PLEASE.

    3- Why didnt he have any miracles to validate his so called prophethood?
    He had hundreds
    http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/15?

    NOT IN THE QURAN. NO MIRACLE IS MENTIONED IN THE QURAN WHICH SUPPOSEDLY CAME STRAIGHT FROM ALLAH.

    MIRACLES ARE MENTIONED IN THE HADITH WHICH CAME 200 YEARS LATER.

    4- How could he break laws that Allah gave, and tell other Muslims to follow these laws? Such as Allah commanding to have no more than 4 wives and he had at least 20?
    You absolutely have no idea about any legislation that predated Islam, do you? you don't know that multiple marriages was legislated in Judaism and Christianity, do you?
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/nt?

    I DONT THINK YOUR GETTING THE POINT. IM NOT DENYING THAT PEOPLE IN THE BIBLE HAD MULTIPLE WIVES. THAT DOESNT MATTER.

    THE POINT IS (ALLAH) GAVE A SPECIFIC COMMAND. NO MORE THAN 4 WIVES. ALLAH SAID THAT. SO HOW CAN HE DISOBEY ALLAH AND HAVE 20?

    IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT SOME OTHER RELIGION DID. ALLAH SAID IN THE QURAN NO MORE THAN 4. ARE U GETTING MY POINT?

  2. #47

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    bump

  3. #48
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    When talking about Shiism it's important to be specific about who you are talking about. There are a bunch of different sects within Shiism and not all follow the same beliefs and traditions. For example, the Zaydi Shia believe that the Imamate isn't passed down from father to son, rather any descendent of Muhammad (SAW) can be an Imam. They don't believe that the Imam's are infallible. and they don't believe in the idea that the Mahdi is hidden.

    Shiism is a religion created out of political dissent. When you study the history of Ahl al-Bayt and the Shia Imams you'll find that the religion they practiced is in fact Sunni Islam. The best example of this is Imam Jafar al Sadiq, he is believed by the Aashari to be the 6th Imam; his students were Abu Hanifa and Malik ibn Anas, founders of Hanafi and Maliki schools of thought of Sunni Islam. In fact, Abu Hanifa supported Imam Zayd ibn Ali's revolution which resulted in his death.

    The differences were initially political, who succeeded who, and the separation led to theological differences which came about much later along with a Aashari revisionist history. That doesn't mean all Aashari are bad Muslims though, a growing number of youth believe in Sunni-Shia reconciliation. That begins with not cursing the Sahaba; the Aashari curse Abu Bakr, Umar, and Aisha.

  4. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindzEye View Post
    When talking about Shiism it's important to be specific about who you are talking about. There are a bunch of different sects within Shiism and not all follow the same beliefs and traditions. For example, the Zaydi Shia believe that the Imamate isn't passed down from father to son, rather any descendent of Muhammad (SAW) can be an Imam. They don't believe that the Imam's are infallible. and they don't believe in the idea that the Mahdi is hidden.

    Shiism is a religion created out of political dissent. When you study the history of Ahl al-Bayt and the Shia Imams you'll find that the religion they practiced is in fact Sunni Islam. The best example of this is Imam Jafar al Sadiq, he is believed by the Aashari to be the 6th Imam; his students were Abu Hanifa and Malik ibn Anas, founders of Hanafi and Maliki schools of thought of Sunni Islam. In fact, Abu Hanifa supported Imam Zayd ibn Ali's revolution which resulted in his death.

    The differences were initially political, who succeeded who, and the separation led to theological differences which came about much later along with a Aashari revisionist history. That doesn't mean all Aashari are bad Muslims though, a growing number of youth believe in Sunni-Shia reconciliation. That begins with not cursing the Sahaba; the Aashari curse Abu Bakr, Umar, and Aisha.
    When I said Shiia I was referring to the 12ers in particular because it's the main movement and of course about the Shiia of nowerdays.

    Thanks for adding what you know about the different sects.

    As for Jafar Al Sadiq, he can only be a great person as he is a direct descendant of the prophet (And Abu Bakr from his mother) but the man never classified himself as Shia.

  5. #50

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    hellspawn?

    was wondering if you could give some insight on my above posts


    peace and thanks in advance

  6. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allahs_Disciple View Post
    hellspawn?

    was wondering if you could give some insight on my above posts


    peace and thanks in advance
    Please resort your posts and ask me precise questions, I can't get into that discussion and throw stuff randomly. Thanx.

  7. #52

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    Who prophesied of prophet muhammad (pbuh) coming? please included the verses

  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Prophet is more common than Messenger, and each Messenger is a Prophet but every Prophet is not a Messenger unless he comes with new rules or a new book/message to mankind wich can nullify the previous rules or complete them.

    Prophets are preachers to the religion/book/message of their time (brought by the lastest messenger).

    According to a hadeeth of Muhammad PBUH : the number of Prophets sent to mankind is 124000 and Messengers are 313 and we only know a few of them, those mentionned in the Quran. But it is known that The Israelites recieved numerous prophets that are not mentionned in the Quran but in the Bible (example Samuel in the time of David/Dawud)



    the hadeeth was : You have to obey your ruler/chef even if he is a black ethiopian slave with a head like a raisin. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 11, Number 664)

    head like a raisin for it is too black (some say small also and some say bald)

    the meaning of the hadith is that any muslim can be a ruler and must be followed if he's able and suitable for the throne (by his wisdom and righteousness) even if he was a slave (most of them at that time were ethiopians or called ethiopians as the nearest african country from Arabia was Ethiopia - like Bilal, the first muazzin in Islam) and for there's no black people nor slaves amongst Qureish who used to think of themselves as the elites and the only suitable to rule and they also used to diminish the black people before islam.

    why exactly

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allahs_Disciple View Post
    Who prophesied of prophet muhammad (pbuh) coming? please included the verses
    "And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic." (61:7)

    in the bible and Torah : http://www.thewaytotruth.org/prophet...ad/proofs.html

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IXxFut2LLI


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur_6aYs_7k

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allahs_Disciple View Post
    why exactly
    Because in that time some remains from the pre-islam period still dominate in the mind of those who ruled the region for a long time ; the tribalism was strong and the lineage was very important for them, it was their reference to classify people untill islam came and enjoin them to become all brothers in religion. Islam abolishes distinction between people "theres no difference between arabs and non arabs except with piety/righteousness".

  11. #56

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    4- How could he break laws that Allah gave, and tell other Muslims to follow these laws? Such as Allah commanding to have no more than 4 wives and he had at least 20?

  12. #57

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    what is your opinion on polygamy or polyamory?

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal Guillotine View Post
    4- How could he break laws that Allah gave, and tell other Muslims to follow these laws? Such as Allah commanding to have no more than 4 wives and he had at least 20?
    That was a privilege from God, we don't know.All I can say is that the wives he had (he had 11 at most) were married for particular reasons ; or to make allies amongst the tribe of the women or such reasons. Except Aicha all the other were widows or divorced women.

  14. #59

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    peace spawn i once heard from an teacher actually the best quran to get is from Yemen?

    also have you read the dead sea scrolls, if you have do you think it coincide with that of the quran(im still trying to find the dead sea scrolls)

  15. #60

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    is it true Jesus never spoke Arabic and Theres no Arabic words in the New Testament!

    Allah was worshipped as the Moon God in Pre-Islamic times by Muhammad and his family who were part of the Quaryish tribe.


    can you explain the following:

    He also said if someone dreamed of a black woman, she was an evil omen of a coming epidemic of disease. vol 9,nos 162,163

    He also had black slaves according to hadith no 435 vol 6.

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