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    The People's Champ Visionz's Avatar
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    Default The Universalism of the Golden Rule

    Forget everything else you know and remember this one thing. If the whole world followed suite all the bullshit would simply cease. This of course is what every religion in the world aims for, to instill this one simple value to the fullest while we forget the basics and then kill each other over the details.

    Baha'i Faith Lay not on any soul a load that you would not wish to be laid upon you, and desire not for anyone the things you would not desire for yourself.
    Ascribe not to any soul that which thou wouldst not have ascribed to thee, and say not that which thou doest not. Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings, LXVI:8 )

    Brahmanism This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you. (Mahabharata 5:1517)

    Buddhism Hurt not others in ways that your yourself would find hurtful. (Udana-Varga 5.18)
    A state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another? (Samyutta Nikaya v. 353)

    Christianity Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (Matthew 7:12)
    ...and do not do what you hate... (Gospel of Thomas 6)

    Confucianism "Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." (Analects 15:23)
    Tse-kung asked, 'Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?' Confucius replied, 'It is the word 'shu' -- reciprocity. Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.' (Doctrine of the Mean 13.3)

    Hinduism Do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you. (Mahabharata 5.1517)
    One should not behave towards others in a way which is disagreeable to oneself. (Mencius Vii.A.4)

    Islam Not one of you is a believer until you wish for others what you wish for yourself. (Fourth Hadith of an-Nawawi 13)
    No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself. (Sunnah)

    Jainism One should treat all creatures in the world as one would like to be treated. (Mahavira, Sutrakritamga)
    Therefore, neither does he [, a sage,] cause violence to others nor does he make others do so. (Acarangasutra 5.101-2)
    In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self. (Lord Mahavira, 24th Tirthankara)

    Judaism What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. (Talmud, Shabbat 31a; Tobit 4:15)
    ...thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. (Leviticus 19:18)

    Native American Spirituality Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. (Chief Seattle)
    Respect for all life is the foundation. (The Great Law of Peace)

    Paganism (Roman) The law imprinted on the hearts of all men is to love the members of society as themselves.

    Scientology "Try not to do things to others that you would not like them to do to you."
    "Try to treat others as you would want them to treat you." (The Way to Happiness by L. Ron Hubbard)

    Shintoism Hurt not others with that which pains yourself. (Udana-Varga 5.18)
    The heart of the person before you is a mirror. See there your own form.

    Sikhism Don't create enmity with anyone as God is within everyone. (Guru Granth Sahib, pg. 1299; Guru Arjan Devji 259)
    Compassion-mercy and religion are the support of the entire world. (Guru Japji Sahib)

    Sufism The basis of Sufism is consideration of the hearts and feelings of others. If you haven't the will to gladden someone's heart, then at least beware lest you hurt someone's heart, for on our path, no sin exists but this. (Dr. Javad Nurbakhsh, Master of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order)

    Taoism Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain and regard your neighbor's loss as your own loss. (Tai Shang kan Ying P'ien, 213 - 218)
    I am good to the man who is good to me, likewise, I am also good to the bad man. (Tao Te Ching)

    Unitarianism We affirm and promote respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part. (Unitarian principle)

    Wicca A'in it harm no one, do what thou wilt (i.e., do whatever you want to, as long as it harms nobody, including yourself). (The Wiccan Rede)

    Yoruba (Nigeria) One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts.

    Zoroastrianism Do not do unto others whatever is injurious to yourself. (Shayast-na-Shayast, 13.29)
    That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself. (Dadistan-i-dinik 94:5)

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    Yeeeah... Not to forget that every religion has a whole load of rules that directly contradict the real basic.

    I do agree with your original statement, don't be mistaken. What's the best part, it's completely non-spiritual, that's pure life practice. Nobody follows it, but still.
    "The Devil is not the Prince of Matter; the Devil is the arrogance of the spirit, faith without smile, truth that is never seized by doubt. The Devil is grim because he knows where he is going, and, in moving, he always returns whence he came."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim T View Post
    Yeeeah... Not to forget that every religion has a whole load of rules that directly contradict the real basic.

    I do agree with your original statement, don't be mistaken. What's the best part, it's completely non-spiritual, that's pure life practice. Nobody follows it, but still.
    I honestly do my best to live by the creed in all facets of my life and I gotta say its eternally rewarding. The actions pay themselves back almost constantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim T View Post
    Yeeeah... Not to forget that every religion has a whole load of rules that directly contradict the real basic.
    prove it.
    I do agree with your original statement, don't be mistaken. What's the best part, it's completely non-spiritual, that's pure life practice. Nobody follows it, but still.
    those statements are pure spirituality.

    otherwise why should one even care about others?
    i'm asking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by STYLE View Post
    those statements are pure spirituality.

    otherwise why should one even care about others?
    i'm asking.
    co-sign, life is 1 endless spirit trip.
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    i disagree.

    if someone was going to rape someone i know id hit that person even though i dont like being hit.

    a better saying would be "do onto others what deserves to be done to them"


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    Quote Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
    i disagree.

    if someone was going to rape someone i know id hit that person even though i dont like being hit.

    a better saying would be "do onto others what deserves to be done to them"
    reaction of your emotion, i think. u dont like being raped neither.
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    The Golden Rule is flawed and was improved upon greatly throughout early philosophy.

    The sentiment of it is nice enough, but as a guiding principle for interacting with others in a modern society it is redundant and illogical.

    Why should i treat someone else the way i want be treated and not the way they want to be treated?



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    ...born of a future war Face of the Golden Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
    i disagree.

    if someone was going to rape someone i know id hit that person even though i dont like being hit.

    a better saying would be "do onto others what deserves to be done to them"
    Following the Golden Rule requires a deep understanding of Universal/Natural/God's Law. When it is understood who and what the Self is, saying "do unto others what deserves to be done to them" is the same as saying "do unto others as you would have done unto your Self". According to Natural (Neter All) Law the rapist has violated the victims rights and therefore gives up his/her own rights in that the victim/s (as one suffers so do all suffer) now has the right to stop the rapist by any means necessary.

    As one who understands the Self a person should expect and want to be called on their crap and reprimanded if necessary if they are in violation of Natural Law. Obviously you would hope that one who understands the Self would not be engaging in such acts anyway (otherwise it could be said they do not truly understand the Self).

    I thought you believed in moral relativism Rakim? How does the judgement of "what deserves to be done unto them" get decided and by who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canibusfan420 View Post
    The Golden Rule is flawed and was improved upon greatly throughout early philosophy.

    The sentiment of it is nice enough, but as a guiding principle for interacting with others in a modern society it is redundant and illogical.

    Why should i treat someone else the way i want be treated and not the way they want to be treated?
    As I said above the Golden Rule requires an understanding of the Self and Natural Law to be truly understood. If this is the case it needs no improving.

    Modern society is redundant and illogical.

    If a mentally challenged person wishes you to cause them severe harm would you do it? Doing unto others as they want done unto them is flawed because it puts the dependency of morality outside of the Self, just like depending on a book (bible etc,) or societal norms etc.

    If ones morality is not guided by the conscience, which is an objective morality faculty, then ones morality is and always will be flawed and destructive in some way. This is why we have the erroneus concept of moral relativism running so rampant in "civilized" society and why "civilized" society sinks deeper and deeper into the cess pool it has created for itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon View Post
    Following the Golden Rule requires a deep understanding of Universal/Natural/God's Law. When it is understood who and what the Self is, saying "do unto others what deserves to be done to them" is the same as saying "do unto others as you would have done unto your Self". According to Natural (Neter All) Law the rapist has violated the victims rights and therefore gives up his/her own rights in that the victim/s (as one suffers so do all suffer) now has the right to stop the rapist by any means necessary.

    As one who understands the Self a person should expect and want to be called on their crap and reprimanded if necessary if they are in violation of Natural Law. Obviously you would hope that one who understands the Self would not be engaging in such acts anyway (otherwise it could be said they do not truly understand the Self).

    I thought you believed in moral relativism Rakim? How does the judgement of "what deserves to be done unto them" get decided and by who?
    what is the universal law and what do you mean by Self. u say that the rapist has given up his rights because hes in violation to the natural law. again what is the natural law.

    also what about someone who actually wants to be raped. should he be allowed to rape others.

    i believe morals are relative. the judegement and whoever decides the judgement is all opinion.


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    Peace Rakim and Canibus

    I'm not sure I can effectively respond to either of you without going into an essay long in depth rant.

    Ultimately what is being discussed here is the most important aspect of life one can ever study and in some shape or form includes all aspects of life. Morals are not simply what an individual believes to be good or bad, which is what many have come to be believe it is. Good and bad are most definitely subjective, individual opinions. Morals, however have to do with what is right and wrong. There are actions that can be deemed in harmony with the natural order of things these are then what is "right". All others are then "wrong".

    Rights do not under any circumstance change or alter, they do not take into account individual egoistic desires. This does not mean, Canibusfan, that they do not take into account the individual, in fact when Natural Law is adhered to the individual NEEDS are all taken care of.

    The Golden Rule, "do unto others what you would have done unto your Self" is completely perfect in summarizing moral behavior in accordance with Natural Law. As I said though to fully understand that summerization one needs and in depth knowledge through both study and life experience of Natural Law and of who and what the Self is. The Self talked of here is the upper-case S Self as opposed to the lower-case s self. To know ones Self is not merely understanding your ego based desires as has become the common advice by new-age type guru's. It goes far far deeper than that.

    As I said I don't think I can effectivey respond to your posts the way I would like to and what I have written is probably even more confusing and less coherant, I will continue to try to expound on particulars further if required.

    If anyone is truly interested in delving into it in there own time (rather then relying on my attempts at converting my thoughts to words in coherant format) I'd suggest looking heavily into true esoteric occult knowledge Man.

    Hereticism, alchemy, Qabalah, Gnostic Christianity, Kamitic Spiritual Science, Freemasonary etc.

    Ra Un Nefer Amen's books.
    Mark Passio's Radio Show (and videos) www.whatonearthishappening.com
    are to musts to look into on the subject.
    Last edited by Face of the Golden Falcon; 11-18-2012 at 02:21 AM.

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    I'm sorry but i really don't follow what you're saying.

    Can you explain how conscience is an "objective moral faculty"... i don't know what that means. I don't understand what you mean when you say: "it puts the dependency of morality outside of the Self".

    In the example i gave (considering another's individuality) one is still morally autonomous, but one acts in the interest of other's in accordance with their preferences. I'm not arguing with you, i just don't see how you can say we should not consider the wants of other's when interacting with them.

    I can understand the importance of knowing myself, but what direct logical benefit would this have for other's?

    If you have a consummate understanding of yourself, how does necessitate a consummate understanding of others? It's obviously a component of understanding other people, but it in itself isn't enough....

    I don't think you really address the issue with the Golden Rule which is that it does not take into account individuality.



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    i dont believe in a natural order to the universe

    why does there have to be a natural order to the universe.
    Last edited by cj wisty; 11-18-2012 at 09:13 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
    i dont believe in a natural order to the universe

    why does there have to be a natural order to the universe.
    Peace Rakim

    No offence but what you believe has no bearing on whether or not the universe, at the density level that our consciousness experiences it, is ordered. Elements are ordered in a particular way and according to particular laws so that we experience flower as a flower, a rock as a rock etc. Whether you believe in gravity or not if you jump of a cliff you fall to your death. This is the same for everyone. It's not a matter of belief.

    Your question "why does there have to be a natural order" I'm not sure how to answer. Are you genuinely asking why there is natural order or is more like when a kid asks why there has to be so many rules?

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