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Old 12-16-2010, 04:55 AM   #1
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Default USA National Debt Debate

all #-&-% are aprox and estimate

OK dude and dudettes. lets get our head out of the clouds for a minute and talk about something more Fiscal.

any ideas to how you would help relive this debt situation.


luckily were already started positive turns, by the deregulation of energy and industry in america; but is that enough?. i don't think so.


if were going to get out of it we need to quit being such duche-bags and stop fearing the word TAX. I know you all think our country was founded on the belief that we shouldn't pay taxes, but that because your all such Historically illiterate.(don't get mad if that doesn't imply to you thats just being immature) Are county was founded because taxes wear not going to us but across the seas. still all we keep doing is making cuts, then rolling back taxes, then taking out loans. if this was Sim City you just lost(maybe you should try an easer job[run for senate]).

lets follow England example and get this VAT tax through legislature. for those who don't know about the VAT. it is a seals tax that only effect people from what they buy(usually not including groceries) and it effect people evenly across the bored, and in order to work effectively without hurting the commercial sector, you would have to keep taxes at a low. i'm not going to lie to you that is great for me, because i'm invested in that sector. the com sector only make up about 30% of are country. even though that is the case we are a consumer nation and should take advantage of it.

second we need to increase the income tax. i know scary. the reason why we are so scared because we pay all these additional taxes. i know in cali were paying Katrina tax6%,(thats another thread) 911 tax,10%(still) Eco tax,8% state 11%, and on top of that are 12%. thats a fucking dookie worth 32% out of your checks. that shit scare me!, as an employer, but if we remove the unless out of state we git 22%. and with a simple increase, state 12% income 15% = 27% out of your check. and stop giving those of us who are above, those Mod-damn TAX break!!!!


share your ideas this is a real debate no attacking individuals on character, only on point.
no one running for office here

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Old 12-16-2010, 05:00 AM   #2
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Im a financial disaster so fuck the US of A the most hypocritical country of all, sorry for my humble opinion
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:03 AM   #3
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is this real???

http://www.usdebtclock.org/



whoa @ these numbers
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:08 AM   #4
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is this real???

http://www.usdebtclock.org/



whoa @ these numbers
sadly yes thanks for that
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Old 12-16-2010, 05:15 AM   #5
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Im a financial disaster so fuck the US of A the most hypocritical country of all, sorry for my humble opinion
ICHI
do you have any ideas to improve are finances, or reduce are hypocrisy?

if not take you ICHI ass out of here
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:22 PM   #6
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hey louie - why don't you take some of that shit outa your sig
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:24 PM   #7
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this is a moot argument

the debt is so bad its impossible to py back

better make sure your money is right
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:19 AM   #8
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all good dane , america based on lies so it will neva solve tere problems u lucifer fool they programmed u deep in ya core sun,
oh almost forgot,
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:17 PM   #9
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^^i'm programed your the one who fell away from odin

but your right the lies are half the problem , and now Obama just sign the bush tax cuts.


so its fucking over we going to gain another 3 trillion dollars. next year and 4 trillion after that. were are not going to get out of the whole.i like to give a big thank you to the republicans for being one steep closer to there 1,000 year kingdom

if thats the case then Lucifer all about raising taxes. because this current regime is in god control
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:01 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
^^i'm programed your the one who fell away from odin

but your right the lies are half the problem , and now Obama just sign the bush tax cuts.

so its fucking over we going to gain another 3 trillion dollars. next year and 4 trillion after that. were are not going to get out of the whole.i like to give a big thank you to the republicans for being one steep closer to there 1,000 year kingdom

if thats the case then Lucifer all about raising taxes. because this current regime is in god control
You are obviously uneducated when it comes to the Bush tax cuts, what they are composed of, and their overall effect on Federal tax revenue.

As I said in the other thread, the BUSH TAX CUTS INCREASED FEDERAL TAX REVENUE!! THIS IS STATISTICALLY PROVEN!!



Obama wanted to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts because THEY WORKED!! Spending and revenue are two different beasts! The Demoncrats perform WORSE when it comes to BOTH!! You offer no proof. You are merely parroting what you watch on MSNBC from dumbfucks like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow!

Please stop talking about something that you obviously have not educated yourself on and know nothing about. All you do is spread ignorance to those who may come to this forum to actually learn something.

I put it all in a spreadsheet to try to make it simple for you Smart-Dumb clowns.



Since Demoncrats have taken control of Congress, Federal Revenue has gone DOWN while Federal spending has gone UP. You guys fail on both sides of the equation. Conservatism is better. Democrats should not be trusted with fiscal policy. It is so ironic that they consistently ACCUSE Republicans of being the fiscally irresponsible ones. I admit that GWB's fiscal policies were too liberal. But they were still better than what we've seen the last four years with Democrats deciding our budget and spending. The numbers PROVE it. Your lips moving prove nothing.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:06 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post
You are obviously uneducated when it comes to the Bush tax cuts, what they are composed of, and their overall effect on Federal tax revenue.

As I said in the other thread, the BUSH TAX CUTS INCREASED FEDERAL TAX REVENUE!! THIS IS STATISTICALLY PROVEN!!



Obama wanted to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts because THEY WORKED!! Spending and revenue are two different beasts! The Demoncrats perform WORSE when it comes to BOTH!! You offer no proof. You are merely parroting what you watch on MSNBC from dumbfucks like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow!

Please stop talking about something that you obviously have not educated yourself on and know nothing about. All you do is spread ignorance to those who may come to this forum to actually learn something.

I put it all in a spreadsheet to try to make it simple for you Smart-Dumb clowns.



Since Demoncrats have taken control of Congress, Federal Revenue has gone DOWN while Federal spending has gone UP. You guys fail on both sides of the equation. Conservatism is better. Democrats should not be trusted with fiscal policy. It is so ironic that they consistently ACCUSE Republicans of being the fiscally irresponsible ones. I admit that GWB's fiscal policies were too liberal. But they were still better than what we've seen the last four years with Democrats deciding our budget and spending. The numbers PROVE it. Your lips moving prove nothing.
well built argument but lets break it down from # 2 first

notice how in that graph the decline whenever Reagenomics is in play.

do you notice how from Reagan to Clinton it goes down...good
thats because the same tax cuts were in play as now.


notice when Clinton removed the cuts on us. do you see how we gain a surplus.

now notice when bush reinstates the tax cuts. see how we have a deficit.

thats what you get with the current plain.



and on the second of course your always going to pay the same rate across the bored

but lets take a look at the cuts



lets say 10% is or current rate
and you get a cut at 10,000 a year that will return 4% of your revenue that gives you back 400 dollars directly from the government pocket no this prise gets to be astronomical once you hit 10,000,000,000, = 400,000,000 out of pocket now the government hopes this will cause a trickle down effect witch is why the offer this incentive.

but keep believe what you want, i make over 250,000 so i'm going to enjoy my cut why this county falls down
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:27 PM   #12
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well built argument but lets break it down from # 2 first

notice how in that graph the decline whenever Reagenomics is in play.
First of all lets remember that during those Reagan years the Democrats were in control of congress and dictating our country's tax policy and spending. Annual revenue increased by ~$210 Billion from the first to last year of Reagan's presidency according to my excel numbers. Spending increased by about $400Billion which is hardly much compared to the durations of others' presidencies. Anything positive or negative you take from that should be attributed to Democrats' policies, unless you believe somehow that Reagan was using his veto power to govern what congress was doing. But I've never seen any evidence of that. I defended Reaganomics in another thread and don't recall anyone making a good argument against EXACTLY why Reagan gets the criticism from the left that he does. It is undeserved criticism. Reagan was a savior compared to the prior years that Jimmy Carter was in power. Inflation was RAMPANT during the Carter years. Inflation sucks. Jimmy Carter left our American hostages to die in Iran. He even recently admited himself some of the failures of his presidency. Jimmy Carter was a fucking peanut farmer. Guy did not know what the fuck he was doing. That's why we got rid of him after only 4 years. Reagan got us out of the economic recession that Carter was burying us in. Thank you Reagan. Sorry that liberals constantly criticize you even when you're in your grave without knowing any of the facts of your presidency.


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Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
do you notice how from Reagan to Clinton it goes down...good
thats because the same tax cuts were in play as now.

notice when Clinton removed the cuts on us. do you see how we gain a surplus.

now notice when bush reinstates the tax cuts. see how we have a deficit.

thats what you get with the current plain.
First of all, what cuts? Please be specific. Tax policy during various administrations cannot be loosely termed "cuts" or "no cuts." That is like classifying everything from GzaGenius to souljah boy as "rap."

From Reagan to the beginning of Clinton's administration, federal tax revenue nearly doubled! Thats a good thing! Well, not if you're the one paying all the taxes. But from the viewpoint of our country as a whole it is a good thing! The Republicans used fair tax rates and still grew revenue. Why? Because not overtaxing business yields a larger base to tax!! taxing 40% of $10billion generates less revenue than when you lower taxes, the businesses expand, and you tax 20% of $100billion! Lower tax rate, higher revenue. Simple math.

The Democrats were in charge of congress from '87 to '94, and that is when they had higher spending than revenue. This is not the Republican president's fault. The President just signs whatever spending budget that the Democratically dominated congress puts in front of them, or else they veto it. But as time draws closer to a deadline, the country needs a budget, and the President just acknowledges and signs what Congress has put forth. If you are unhappy from '87 to '94, again, you should be directing your frustrations toward the Democratic congressmen of that time period.

The surplus (which really wasn't a surplus but that takes a long explanation) during the Clinton years is THANKS TO REPUBLICANS! Yes! Look at all the red in the excel spreadsheet. I highlighted those cells to indicate that the majority of Congress for those years were Republicans! Republicans balanced our budget and were running surpluses. Thanks Republicans! All Clinton did was sign the piece of paper in between catching blow jobs. Again, you are MISPLACING all your criticism and compliments.

Now I will agree with you on one thing. That GWB with a Republican led congress from 2002 until 2006 was fiscally irresponsible. But in retrospect to the last 30 years, Republicans have been much more conservative when it comes to both revenue generation for our Federal government and Federal spending.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis Cypher View Post
and on the second of course your always going to pay the same rate across the bored

but lets take a look at the cuts

lets say 10% is or current rate
and you get a cut at 10,000 a year that will return 4% of your revenue that gives you back 400 dollars directly from the government pocket no this prise gets to be astronomical once you hit 10,000,000,000, = 400,000,000 out of pocket now the government hopes this will cause a trickle down effect witch is why the offer this incentive.

but keep believe what you want, i make over 250,000 so i'm going to enjoy my cut why this county falls down
You are looking at who gets the bigger "cut." But that is irrelevant and just a parlor trick. WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS HOW MUCH SOMEONE EFFECTIVELY PAYS IN ANNUAL TAX! Not how much of a cut they get from what they paid last year. That is only a misleading decoy.


http://seekingalpha.com/article/2301...d?source=email

This chart shows that the top 1% of taxpayers (ranked by income) pay ~40% of all Federal income taxes; the top 5% (includes all those whose AGI exceeds $160K) pay ~60% of total taxes; and the top 10% pay 70% of all income taxes. You can find the data and commentary from The Tax Foundation here.

Those whom Obama would label as rich—those with incomes greater than 250K—and thus deserving of higher tax rates, paid (based on my interpolation of the data) about 50% of all Federal income taxes in 2008. Is that not enough of a burden?

Despite the 50% reduction in top marginal tax rates since 1980, the rich have paid progressively more and more of total income taxes.

That is the Laffer Curve at work!. And even more unfair is that the top 1% of income earners paid almost as much (92%) as the bottom 95%. We are deeply in a situation in which the few are supporting the many: the bottom 50% of income earners paid only 2.7% of total income taxes in 2008, and 52 million taxpayers paid no income taxes at all.

Basically, the rich already pay more than their share. You and I are the ones not paying our fair share. Shall we man up and raise taxes on ourselves then?
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:27 PM   #13
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How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.
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Old 12-17-2010, 05:35 PM   #14
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How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.
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share your ideas this is a real debate no attacking individuals on character, only on point.
no one running for office here
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:14 PM   #15
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How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.
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