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Old 07-11-2013, 01:49 AM   #1
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Default What The World Owes To Muslim Spain

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Old 07-13-2013, 02:58 PM   #2
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peace urb
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:18 PM   #3
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A lot of pick pockets in Spain
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lol check 2, always bringing the funny jokes. that one made me really chuckle.
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:38 PM   #4
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Look at "Muslims" now though. Something went wrong!
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:28 PM   #5
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Look at "Muslims" now though. Something went wrong!
The problem with Islam is that it isn't a creative force. Principalities, unlike republics are imperialist and not really societies in which thought is encouraged. Theocratic principalities are even worse. The Moors who built in Spain, were more worldly and less devout to Muhammad. Like Rome, like the Huns and other Asian tribes, whether you're talking in the time of Muhammad and the arab campaigns or the Ottomans, Islam built off other civilizations which it plundered. It's not a creative force. Ask yourself, why after the battle at the gates of Vienna, did the Ottoman empire become a technological backwater, where as Western Europe thrived?

As Islam expanded, it simply took what was already done by Greeks, Zoroastrian Persians, Sikhs, Hindus, Buddhists and Byzantine Christians and built upon it. The one positive that emerged out of this expansion and pirating, is that they brought back to Europe the knowledge that was lost after the plague and the bitter days of the dark ages.
Why I think Muslims have fallen off? Their devotion to the Qur'an and Muhammad's dogmas, fears and hatred. They've been left behind and are now "a little people" as Lawrence said.

Still stuck in a world of clan destined in fighting and power grabs by religious authorities and lords, they've gone backward. The secular revolution of the protestants was huge and the development of state craft we've seen in western society could not have happened in an Islamic state. The closest thing Islam has to that today, is Turkey. Which was starting to feel the benefit of a more secular, reasoned, less clan based system. The problem facing the Muslim brotherhood and other conservative Islamic groups, is simply that they're obsolete. When people get a taste of liberty and privilege, that ancient right of a demos, to tell it's leaders what is what isn't, doesn't die easy. It has to be crushed out right.

They're trying to have it both ways, they want progress and they want critical thinking youths to take their economies to new heights before Shale deposits and other forms of energy make their culture entirely irrelevant but they don't want to give up power. They don't want to just be private citizens like everyone else and without Muhammad and his Qur'an being held as perfect and unquestionable authority, the whole scheme just goes up in smoke.


Worse than that, being in the information age means criticisms of the prophet and his message are easily spread. The flaws of his supposed revelations as well as the Muslim sources are out in the open. They don't want reform but they're between a rock and a hard place. I don't believe in the myth of human progress but I do believe data becomes obsolete. The idea of a perfect Qur'an is obsolete and it's promoters know it. This has everything to do with keeping power on their end.

They're like Catholics, they've been lying to people, causing conflicts and butting their noses where they don't belong for so long that everyone else HATES them.
Personally, I find it all pretty damn funny.

Last edited by Nomad-1; 07-14-2013 at 08:38 PM.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:08 PM   #6
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The problem with Islam is that it isn't a creative force. Principalities, unlike republics are imperialist and not really societies in which thought is encouraged. Theocratic principalities are even worse. The Moors who built in Spain, were more worldly and less devout to Muhammad. Like Rome, like the Huns and other Asian tribes, whether you're talking in the time of Muhammad and the arab campaigns or the Ottomans, Islam built off other civilizations which it plundered. It's not a creative force.

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Why I think Muslims have fallen off? Their devotion to the Qur'an and Muhammad's dogmas, fears and hatred. They've been left behind and are now "a little people" as Lawrence said.
Correction. They have fallen off, because of NON-ADHERENCE, for the most part, to the Quran, and adherence to HADITH, which are statements attributed to Muhammad, but have close NO VALIDITY as a source of Islam.

Fears and hatred - ya, you could say that. Politics and racism.


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Worse than that, being in the information age means criticisms of the prophet and his message are easily spread. The flaws of his supposed revelations as well as the Muslim sources are out in the open.
Prove it if you can.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:09 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nomad-1 View Post
The problem with Islam is that it isn't a creative force. Principalities, unlike republics are imperialist and not really societies in which thought is encouraged. Theocratic principalities are even worse. The Moors who built in Spain, were more worldly and less devout to Muhammad. Like Rome, like the Huns and other Asian tribes, whether you're talking in the time of Muhammad and the arab campaigns or the Ottomans, Islam built off other civilizations which it plundered. It's not a creative force.
You are wrong about Islam not being a creative force. There are verses promoting critical thinking, exploration and empiricism.

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Originally Posted by Nomad-1 View Post
Why I think Muslims have fallen off? Their devotion to the Qur'an and Muhammad's dogmas, fears and hatred. They've been left behind and are now "a little people" as Lawrence said.
Correction. They have fallen off, because of NON-ADHERENCE, for the most part, to the Quran, and adherence to HADITH, which are statements attributed to Muhammad, but have NO VALIDITY as a source of Islam.

Fears and hatred - ya, you could say that. Politics and racism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad-1 View Post
Worse than that, being in the information age means criticisms of the prophet and his message are easily spread. The flaws of his supposed revelations as well as the Muslim sources are out in the open.
Prove it if you can.
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Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:59 PM   #8
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You are wrong about Islam not being a creative force. There are verses promoting critical thinking, exploration and empiricism.
There are verses in the Qur'an that also state Alexander traveled West toward the place where the sun sets. Despite the fact, that he and his empire expanded out of Greece through Asia. East.
The Qur'an states that the To'rah(Tawrat) and Gospels(Injil) come from the same God as it and yet it says entirely different revelations. On top of that, it claims nobody can corrupt Allah's word. Qur'an 3.3 So, if no one can corrupt Allah's revelations why there myriad of differences? Add to that the Hadith and Muhammad's character, add to that, abrogating verses that convenience Muhammad such as Qur'an 33:50 which tells him he no longer has to follow an earlier revelation(Qur'an 4:3) that limited him and his followers to four wives.
Add to that Qur'an 33.53 states that no one may marry his divorced ex-wives and it becomes apparent what kind of man he was.
Illiterate, he never really understood prior revelation, To'rah and new testament.
Hence the reasons why people from the bible are found out of place and saying things they'd never say.
A trader, he dealt with people in the region, including the Gnostics hence why we have the story of another man on the cross, rather than Jesus; the Sabeans who fasted during Ramadan, prayed 5 times, circumambulated the Kaaba etc.
He took from the Apocrypha, he took from pagan peoples and the end result was his Qur'an.

If it were otherwise, one would expect the God of the Israelites to have a coherent message. The transition between the bible and Qur'an would be seamless, it isn't. If there was a gospel of Jesus, at least a copy would be found. If it was true that the bible and Torah were corrupted, it would contradict the Qur'an's claim that Allah's word is incorruptable but also, we would see a perfect manuscript somewhere. We have tens of thousands of documents related to the gospels and to the To'rah, none of them compliment the Qur'an.

You have two real choices, one of which is that the Qur'an is not perfect or the other, Muhammad simply made up his revelations as he went along and never really knew what he was talking about. The Jews would not have addressed Jesus as their Messiah and more over, Christ was coined by his later Greek followers. Therefor, linguistically, historically, the Qur'ans claims regarding the crucifixion are unsupported. More over, there's a mistake regarding Mary that only an Arab speaker would make. The Qur'an calls her Miriam, worse yet it calls her sister of Aaron. In the old testament, Miriam was indeed the sister of Aaron, Aaron who lived in the time of Moses....
And at that point, it's obvious who came up with the Qur'an. Not God but some mere Bedouin tribesmen.



I'm not saying ditch the religion but the errors and stupidity that would exist in adhering to it, as though it were without fault, will only leave you further backward. Words are corruptible, God is not a genie who just hands people all of life's answers and it's obvious why someone else would tell you the contrary, to gain power over you. I have faith in God but none in the truthfulness of men. For good reason. They're mortal, living in the moment and will throw you under the bus without so much as a forethought.





Quote:
Correction. They have fallen off, because of NON-ADHERENCE
Adhering to the principles of Islamic jurisprudence would be stupid. Have you ever actually read some of the laws muslims live under? In Saudi Arabia they still try people for witch craft. They're stuck in time and they will forever be nothing more than a U.S. protectorate.


As for Hadith having no validity, those people that wrote the earliest sources lived in the time of the prophet. They'll have more validity than you could ever hope for.


...

Last edited by Nomad-1; 07-14-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:39 AM   #9
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A lot of pick pockets in Spain
huh?
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Old 07-13-2013, 03:41 PM   #10
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plants - they plant agents in any movement that's thriving - to cause dissension
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Old 07-14-2013, 07:39 AM   #11
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check 2 has no couth
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:56 AM   #12
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check 2 has no couth
are you bored?
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lol check 2, always bringing the funny jokes. that one made me really chuckle.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:10 AM   #13
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are you bored?
yes and no
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:00 PM   #14
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check 2 has no couth
Some things are better left ignored.
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:03 PM   #15
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Some things are better left ignored.
You got that right.
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lol check 2, always bringing the funny jokes. that one made me really chuckle.
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