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Old 06-07-2008, 03:12 AM   #1
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Scorpio


Saturday, Jun 7th, 2008 -- Your anger may increase throughout the day if others try to talk you out of your feelings. Paradoxically, your willingness to change your mind just confuses others even further. They mistakenly think you don't know how you feel, while the truth is you are just exploring different perspectives. Be as tolerant with others as you want them to be with you.



Virgo


Saturday, Jun 7th, 2008 -- Your natural connection to Mercury increases the likelihood of being affected by the messenger planet's current alignment in your 10th House of Status. Although you may be away from work for the weekend, career issues may be on your mind, making it difficult for you to relax. Setting aside some time to think about your long-range plans can increase your ability to unwind and have fun later.



Pisces


Saturday, Jun 7th, 2008 -- Although talking about your feelings can help to dissipate any negativity, you need to be careful that you don't say too much. You can inadvertently give away your power unless you hold some of it in reserve for yourself. Avoid the temptation of sharing personal information casually to make others like you more.


ETC......
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:05 AM   #2
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i swear my horoscope sign doesnt fit me
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:10 PM   #3
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how well do you know yourself ?
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:49 PM   #4
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how well do you know yourself ?
seems like i have characteristics of a capricorn
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Old 06-01-2012, 01:40 PM   #5
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:33 PM   #6
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Nah, dude just showed a complete lack of understanding regarding what astrology is that's all.
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Old 06-01-2012, 08:51 PM   #7
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Your birthday must be after January and before March
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:33 AM   #8
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Your birthday must be after January and before March
lo nah sunny my astrological sign is a Libra, however one of my family member is a capricorn
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:42 PM   #9
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How do you see it?
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:31 PM   #10
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Astrology is misunderstood by both type of people represented in that video. They understand it in the way that that guy explained it, that is, the planets, stars and celestial bodies somehow determine your personality type. This is not what is happening. Put simply all things in creation are maintained in their existence by a certain archtype. An over-arching energy so to speak. The chinese are the masters at documenting this and have developed a form of "astrology" based on these archtypes (represented by earth, fire, wood, water, metal for the chinese system) called Bazi. Which from what I can gather is easier to use and master than trying to follow the movements of heavens. Both when used and understood properly would have the same outcome though.
Back on point though, the celestial bodies themselves are included in being maintained by these archtypes. Not only that but cycles, seasons, and time also are maintained by these archtypes. Astrology is not about celestial bodies determining personality types. It is about them being for "signs and seasons" that allow us to get a look at what cycles and forces effect our lives. The same force that makes Mars a dry, arid, seemingly war-torn planet is the same force that makes an individual a firey, aggressive person always trying to pick a fight. No one can doubt that individuals have an over-arching personality type, the other thing we as humans have, though, is free-will which means astrology should not be seen as forces we are at the mercy of but that we use to grow and develop so that we become the masters of all the forces.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:17 PM   #11
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I see it differently. I think the person/people who came up with this system were cunning. I think these forces and energies are things that are possibly in all of us to a certain degree. I also think that if a person is told as a child that since they were born in a certain month, they will have certain forces in effect, and this is repeated everytime their horoscope is read, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is no sound logic involved, but a lot of metaphors - the planets being metaphors for energies/ancient greek or roman 'gods'.
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Old 06-02-2012, 01:30 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
I see it differently. I think the person/people who came up with this system were cunning. I think these forces and energies are things that are possibly in all of us to a certain degree. I also think that if a person is told as a child that since they were born in a certain month, they will have certain forces in effect, and this is repeated everytime their horoscope is read, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

There is no sound logic involved, but a lot of metaphors - the planets being metaphors for energies/ancient greek or roman 'gods'.
We don't see it all that differently. It just seems to me like you have an opinion on it without an understanding of it. I think a lot of people who are in the horoscope business are for the most part cunning and know how to generalize and appeal to certain people. The people who "came up" with the Astrological system did not use it in the way it is used today which is as we both know with cunning and deception. Astrology and astronomy were the foremost sciences of the ancient world all over the world and for good reason.

The example you gave is one of only many ways of applying astrological science and from your point of view you see it as a self fulfilling process. Maybe it is. Like I said though you came up with one example of how it can be used. What happens when a person who hasn't grown up knowing anything about astrological science then becomes knowledgable on the subject and sees patterns and cycles that coincide with the knowledge from the part of their life before they knew anything about it? How can this be self-fulfilling?

Again this is just another example but it clashes with your example.

Interestingly enough the knowledge of archtypal forces is all sound logic. In fact its the epitome of sound logic because it is the science of SOUND LOGOS.

To say it is not logical because it is a lot of metaphors is ridiculous. If I say to you "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" (to pick a random metaphor) and you did not have and understanding of what that metaphor means then it would come across to you as illogical. This appears to be where you are at in your understanding of astrology, especially when you finish your statement with "the planets being metaphors for energies/ancient greek or roman 'gods'". Which one do you think they are metaphors for energies or greek and roman gods? Because by your own admission you said that you "think" energies exist in us in "certain degrees" (obviously, as everything exists in degrees.). Do you also think greek and roman gods exist in us in certain degrees? Because as I said you lack understanding if you think the planets are metaphors for mythological gods and goddesses of a culture who were some of the last on the scene when it comes to astrological science.
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Old 06-02-2012, 09:47 PM   #13
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The people who "came up" with the Astrological system did not use it in the way it is used today which is as we both know with cunning and deception. Astrology and astronomy were the foremost sciences of the ancient world all over the world and for good reason.
How was it used in the ancient times?

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Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon View Post
The example you gave is one of only many ways of applying astrological science and from your point of view you see it as a self fulfilling process. Maybe it is. Like I said though you came up with one example of how it can be used. What happens when a person who hasn't grown up knowing anything about astrological science then becomes knowledgable on the subject and sees patterns and cycles that coincide with the knowledge from the part of their life before they knew anything about it? How can this be self-fulfilling?
So a person sees patterns and cycles that coincide with it. An explanation for this could be that the readings of this astrological science are so general so that they could apply to all humans at certain times in their lives.

The cunning person must know a general knowledge of people's hopes and dreams, the potential choices that humans could make, make note of certain times and seasons that certain events occur based on historical patterns, etc.


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Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon View Post
To say it is not logical because it is a lot of metaphors is ridiculous. If I say to you "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" (to pick a random metaphor) and you did not have and understanding of what that metaphor means then it would come across to you as illogical.
It is not sound, for the only sound logic is deductive (if the rules are followed). Metaphor falls under the category of analogy and as such, is not free from error.


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Originally Posted by Face of the Golden Falcon View Post
This appears to be where you are at in your understanding of astrology, especially when you finish your statement with "the planets being metaphors for energies/ancient greek or roman 'gods'". Which one do you think they are metaphors for energies or greek and roman gods?
They are metaphors for greek and roman so-called 'gods' and their attributes.


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Because by your own admission you said that you "think" energies exist in us in "certain degrees" (obviously, as everything exists in degrees.). Do you also think greek and roman gods exist in us in certain degrees?
What I mean by 'energies' are emotions and human characteristics.

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Because as I said you lack understanding if you think the planets are metaphors for mythological gods and goddesses of a culture who were some of the last on the scene when it comes to astrological science.
Yes, they were last on the scene, however, when I looked up some info on this, here is what I've found:

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By 450 BCE the Babylonians had developed the 12-sign zodiac, but it was the Greeks--from the time of Alexander the Great to their conquest by the Romans--who provided most of the fundamental elements of modern Western astrology.
Maybe the planets were metaphors for other things, after some additional elements from the Europeans, those planets took on the meanings we have now.









Some questions to think about:

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Why are the initial conditions more important than all subsequent conditions for oneís personality and traits? Why is the moment of birth chosen as the significant moment rather than the moment of conception? Why arenít other initial conditions such as oneís motherís health, the delivery place conditions, forceps, bright lights, dim room, back seat of a car, etc., more important than whether Mars is ascending, descending, culminating, or fulminating? Why isnít the planet Earthóthe closest large object to us in our solar system--considered a major influence on who we are and what we become? Other than the Sun and the Moon and an occasional passing comet or asteroid, most planetary objects are so distant from us that any influences they might have on anything on our planet are likely to be wiped out by the influences of other things here on Earth.
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Old 06-04-2012, 03:49 AM   #14
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How was it used in the ancient times?
For the most part it was reserved for the higher ups and it's knowledge was hidden from the masses (like a lot of spiritual sciences). Why would this knowledge be occulted if it was just a load of BS? These days it is disclosed but the masses only receive it in a watered down version.

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So a person sees patterns and cycles that coincide with it. An explanation for this could be that the readings of this astrological science are so general so that they could apply to all humans at certain times in their lives.
That could be an explanation, but as I said in a post to Fatal, a true astrological reading takes into account much more than just the sun sign of the persons birth month. And it would not be that they could apply "to all humans at certain times in their lives" because the reading would account for when the patterns and changes in cycles take place.

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The cunning person must know a general knowledge of people's hopes and dreams, the potential choices that humans could make, make note of certain times and seasons that certain events occur based on historical patterns, etc.
I'm not saying this doesn't happen, but this relys on your assumption that all people who have ever been successful at reading a person astrologically were deliberatly trying to swindle them. This spanning the globe in multiple cultures over thousands of years, not one honest astrologer amongst them?

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It is not sound, for the only sound logic is deductive (if the rules are followed). Metaphor falls under the category of analogy and as such, is not free from error.
The metaphor itself may not be logic, I'll concede that, but behind the metaphor there may lie a logical truth which is the case for true astrology which is based on universal laws.

And in fact it was incorrect to label the planets as metaphors in the first place. They are not. That would be like saying a calander is a metaphor for the seasons, days, months and years. It's not. It's a way to keep track of the seasons, days, months and years. The celestial bodies act in the same manner as a calander except they are much more accurate because they themselves are woven into the web of cycles that they keep track of.


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They are metaphors for greek and roman so-called 'gods' and their attributes.
So the planets (actual objects in the empiracly known universe) are metaphors for greek and roman gods (of which there is no proof they exist as empiracly knowable "things")???


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What I mean by 'energies' are emotions and human characteristics.
I know. But do you think the energy that makes someone angry, red, hot and bothered is any different than the energy that underlies the scorching hot summer weather, or the hot, dry, arid desert lands or the hot, spicy pepper? Many ancient cultures understood them to be the same and it led to an understanding of the universe that western science is only now beginning to see was right and exact.


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Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
Yes, they were last on the scene, however, when I looked up some info on this, here is what I've found:
Are we still talking exclusively of western astrology? Because I've been talking of the science of astrology as a whole, not just any one particular form.

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Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
Maybe the planets were metaphors for other things, after some additional elements from the Europeans, those planets took on the meanings we have now.
The planets were never metaphors for anything, as I said. They are representations of the archtypical energy which sustains their existence. If I form a club of people with dreadlocks, I, as an emprically known existing person with dreadlocks, can not not be called a metaphor for dreadlocks or for the dreadlock club or for a story about the members of the dreadlock club. I am a representation of the dreadlock club. If then by studying my movements and patterns of behavior and the movements and patterns of behavior of the other members of the dreadlock club and it is shown that the movements and behaviors of any one member can give an accurate insight into the movements and behavior of the other members, both as individuals and a whole then you are using deductive logic and can make predictions about certain members movement and behavior. Hope that some how makes sense.

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Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
Some questions to think about:

Quote:
Why are the initial conditions more important than all subsequent conditions for oneís personality and traits? Why is the moment of birth chosen as the significant moment rather than the moment of conception? Why arenít other initial conditions such as oneís motherís health, the delivery place conditions, forceps, bright lights, dim room, back seat of a car, etc., more important than whether Mars is ascending, descending, culminating, or fulminating? Why isnít the planet Earthóthe closest large object to us in our solar system--considered a major influence on who we are and what we become? Other than the Sun and the Moon and an occasional passing comet or asteroid, most planetary objects are so distant from us that any influences they might have on anything on our planet are likely to be wiped out by the influences of other things here on Earth.
A lot of those questions can be answered with "they are". Some forms of astrology do take the conception date into account. Other questions have already been answered so are completely irrelevant (the ones that see the celestial bodies as having a direct influence on us rather than as a means of tracking and representing the influences. Even wackypedia knows this so I'm not going to continue repeating it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology Cycles of change that are observed in the heavens are therefore said to be reflective (not causative) of similar cycles of change observed on earth and within the individual.


The rest can be answered if you open your mind to the possibilty that things like the mother's health, the delivery conditions etc are also governed by the same forces that underly the movement of the celestial bodies. All is accounted for in the great web of life, woven by the Supreme Architect.

Ultimatley, your ending quote shows that you are not even willing to change your point of view on the most fundamental part of astrology (the part I put in green!) if you can't change your view point on that then there is little point to this discussion going any further.

Bless!
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Old 06-02-2012, 05:57 PM   #15
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^
make sure you check your sign with a sidereal zodiac chart (in contrast to the commonly used tropical zodiac chart). This might be effecting why you don't see Libra in yourself. Also keep in mind that as a science astrology doesn't just come down to what ever astrological month you are born in shall clue you into your personality type. Each age is governed by certain forces, each year, each month each day of the week each segment of the day etc. These all play a varying role in in determining your incarnated peronality.
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