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Old 03-12-2008, 02:43 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by PALEHORSE View Post
the whole basis of the scientific method is to prove these subtle enegies dont exist

its an indoctrination
lol Science is an indoctrination? It's simply a way of asking questions about the world and testing them out. It has nothing to do with a doctrine or belief system.

Now if these "subtle energies" existed, they should be able to withstand scientific attempts to disprove them. That's how science works. Hey......the computer you're using right now. Guess how it was invented? Not through "subtle energies," but through scientific testing to make sure everything worked right. Sorry, but your lame attempts to tap into "subtle energies" and so-called ancient "wisdom" don't mean fuck-all in the real world where you actually have to evaluate things with rationality.
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Old 03-12-2008, 02:56 PM   #32
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http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse....gi?u=astrology

http://www.simonyi.ox.ac.uk/dawkins/...in_stars.shtml
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:09 PM   #33
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its basically what astrology is sunny just the proper term is natal astrology, theres also horary astrology which is predicting the future instead of predicting character traits
thats peace

i'll have to look it up
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:14 PM   #34
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It's silly to believe that the stars arrange themselves with any consideration for people or that people develop personality traits with any consideration for the stars. The way astrology works is that it lists all sorts of ambiguities and abstract language that anyone can find what they are looking for in it. Humans by our very nature have a tendency to take in evidence of what we want to be true and ignore everything to the contrary, hence why people find all sorts of bullshit significances for certain number patterns. Calling astrology a "science" is laughable....it has nothing to do with the scientific method. Like most superstitions and pseudo-sciences, it works on the principle of claiming to already have answers divined from some higher power whereas ACTUAL SCIENCE operates on the premise of asking questions and TRYING TO DISPROVE theories until they withstand our best testing.

And just cause something is old, doesn't make it better or wiser. Slavery, monarchy, blood feuds, infanticide, human sacrifice, and believing the earth is the center of the universe are all old things too.
is it true that water/tides rise during a full moon ?

how are people affected during a full moon ?

is it true that the hospitals emergency rooms are much more crowded during these times ?

how are people affected by the sun in the summer and the winter elements in the winter ? (no pun intended)

going through a pregnancy during spring showers at certain points of time has no effect on the child at all ?
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:26 PM   #35
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isn't a womans period on a lunar cycle?

doesn't the sun's electromagnetic radiation shift relative to the angle the earth passes thru it?

isn't the earth affected by the other planets gravitational field?

smh...


oh and actually the tides rise and fall due to the moons gravity. when the moon is on one side of the earth it pulls the water to that side, the other side's water level falls. then vice versa.

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Old 03-12-2008, 05:40 PM   #36
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:35 PM   #37
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its deeper then that u have to understand how the scientific method works then understand the nature of subtle energies then u add the 2 and get 3 ...somethings not right....

the only thing i can do is repeat

the whole basis of the scientific method is to prove subtle energies dont exist...its a clever scam, u bought it,

quantum mechanics is a great example where your science is failing and thats just on the threshold of subtle energies and your model of science will never be able to comprehend it.
Ok buddy, whenever you figure out how to use your "subtle energies" to make vaccines for diseases, I'll buy into your crap. For now, I'll stick to the one method of inquiry that's tried and true.

As I know nothing of quantum mechanics I can't comment on your remark, but if you'd care to enlighten me on where you think science is "failing" there... There's really no such thing as "winning" or "losing" when it comes to science, because when it comes right down to it, it's a method of testing things. If you mean that we don't fully understand quantum mechanics yet, then that is in no way a failure. But that's okay, you're clearly a person who lives by absolutes and has no patience to wait for peer-reviewed answers. You'd prefer to believe that some divine sages from the infancy of our species once carried all the answers to life. If that keeps you sane, so be it. I'll choose to live in the real world where houses are built, crops are grown, and diseases are cured through rational thinking, not magic.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:39 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
is it true that water/tides rise during a full moon ?

how are people affected during a full moon ?

is it true that the hospitals emergency rooms are much more crowded during these times ?

how are people affected by the sun in the summer and the winter elements in the winter ? (no pun intended)

going through a pregnancy during spring showers at certain points of time has no effect on the child at all ?
All these questions have to do with supposed correlations between the things you're talking about, (except for tides, which have nothing to do with supernatural powers and are perfectly explainable with knowledge of gravitational pulls).

Correlation =/= causation, and furthermore the things you're talking about are easily affected by suggestion. What I'm saying is that, someone who's sure that people are affected by the full moon might be more aware of strange behavior in themselves and other people just by having that preconception. Because of that, they might totally ignore that the prevalence is the same every other time of the year. You people are so hung up on your subjective experience. You never step outside yourself to question whether you're deluding yourself.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:49 PM   #39
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you should have stopped there and have saved us oth the trouble because obviously your sensitive to your beliefs


and you went so random on so many different subjects i dont feel like taking the time to write responses so ill just say peace
How am I sensitive to my beliefs?

I tried very hard to stay on topic there, so I don't know what you're problem is. I will try to restate it in less sentences.

Regardless of what you or I know about quantum mechanics, I want to know how you think science is failing there but (apparently) astrology or whatever new age shit you believe in, is succeeding. If you mean that science hasn't fully explored quantum mechanics, then that has nothing to do with its validity. It means simply that we haven't figured everything out yet. This applies to any area of science.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:13 PM   #40
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i wish i could type fast.....
u did stay on topic
your belief is the scientific method it is a doctrine whether u recognize it or not
If you want to believe that. It's really not. You use scientific thinking every day, even since you were little. All science is, is a method of testing things. Observe. Hypothesize. Test. Conclude. Retest. You come to enough conclusions and you can build a theory off of it. If, eventually, new evidence comes along to disprove that theory, it is discarded and anything built off of it can be discarded as well. You've done this on a smaller scale all your life. Babies do it. It's just a standardized method of measuring the natural world.

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science cant explain quantum mechanics becase they can either find the velocity of a particle or the postion but not both.....
subatomic particles
How does this mean it's failing?

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to fully understand subtle energies and supraluminal(particles and waves beyond the speed of light) particles you have to be able to find the answer to the square root of 1

which is impossible

this is just one example where your medieval science ends
Ok, this is just a wave of non sequiters. Funny you should call science "medieval" when astrology is precisely that. You realize the scientific knowledge we have today is vastly superior to what they knew in medieval times.

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and there are people that have it all figured out.....and supress this knowledge
Doubtful. Science isn't a religion or governmental body run by set authorities. It's all about researchers and peer review. If something gets shut out, it's because the majority of scientists thought it was ludicrous. While this has sometimes led to real discoveries being suppressed by prejudice, if something is truly there, it will eventually withstand testing and rise above preconcieved notions. You have this idea that if what you want to be true isn't supported it's because someone is covering it up. That's simply paranoia.

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without ytping a book repoert i will just give examples

the tomb of the mayan lord pacal and the tomb of the pharoah tutankhuman
This means nothing to me, you'll have to explain.

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and i just want to make it clear...i am not a "new ager"
Sadly, by associatint yourself with something like astrology you lend yourself to those stereotypes, but I apologize.

Quantum mechanics aside, I want to know from you how believe in "subtle energies" has proven any use in explaining the world. Can you create a vaccine for a disease using "subtle energies"? Can you find an alternative fuel source to end America's addiction to oil using "subtle energies"? My point is that the scientific method is the only way proven to transcend the illusions of subjective experience and actually establish some truths about the world and human nature. It's not a doctrine. It's malleable. It's built off of observations and testing. If something is false, it will eventually be corrected. Doctrines are not self-correcting.
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:12 PM   #41
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i'll pick up the baton from here. okay........

1st.
you asked how stars sand planets could affect someones character and personality.
so suny and i asked questions that led to the answer. celestial bodies do have an effect on earth. if they can affect things on earth, is it such a stretch to think that they could affect an embro/fetus during development?

2nd.
Quantum.
the position of an electron can never be predicted. NEVER. but it will be wherever you look for it at within its shell orbit. like if i hide a tennis ball in ur house, you have no idea where it is and have no way to infer where it is but wherever you look it will be there. under your bed, in the trashcan, in the cushions of the couch. in the oven. etc etc.


a subatomic particle acts as a wave until it is OBSERVED then it collapses into a particle.
the act of measuring or looking at and possibly thinking about a subatomic particle alters it.

two particles are allowed ro interact, they are each put on opposite sides of the galaxy, one particle is altered the other mimics the change INSTANTLY. faster than the speed of light, INSTANT. nothing movres faster than C. and what kind of bonds can span those distances.



these obsevavble phenom shit on every known "fact" that modern science has established and actually touch on philosophies and beliefs from the ancient world

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Old 03-13-2008, 12:54 PM   #42
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do the planets affect life on earth ?
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:14 PM   #43
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The tides are also affected by the Sun's position too, however the Sun's affect on the tides is only around 1/2 of the moon's force. Therefore during a solar eclipse the tides would be amplified at opposite ends they cancel each other.

The best example of tides is Jupiter's planet Io. Before Voyager 2 even too photographs of it, the surface was predicted to have lava on it because of how close it is to Jupiter, its almost within its Roche limit which means the force would shred the planet and it would be part of Jupiter's rings. And it does indeed look like a pizza from the extreme tidal forces.

If Earth's moon had water on it, the tidal forces the Earth to the moon would have a constant violent storm.

One hypothesis is if all the Jovian planets lined up it would affect Earth's tides so much that Earth would shred. However not even Jupiter itself has an impact on Earth's tide. It would take like 50 Jupiters lined up to have a tidal effect.
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Old 03-13-2008, 03:42 PM   #44
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The best example of tides is Jupiter's planet Io.

would you say that jupiter is a sun in the making ?
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Old 03-13-2008, 04:31 PM   #45
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would you say that jupiter is a sun in the making ?
Thats a hard one. Some may say that Jupiter is a failed Sun.

Nevertheless it is an interesting planet. So to answer your earlier question Jupiter can affect life on Earth in indirect ways. Since it carries 99% of the solar systems angular momentum, all the planets orbiting would be very different without it.

If you question is what would happen if Jupiter just disappeared tomorrow.... who knows....Im not in an imaginative state of mind right now to think of funny possible outcomes
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