"Beatmaking" in hip hop has stagnated and hit a brick wall - Page 4 - Wu-Tang Corp. - Official Site of the Wu-Tang Clan

Ghost In The 'Lac · 05-13-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Universo

--------------------------------------------------
whoever said you had to be some type of musical genius to make hip hop beats?
makin a beat isn't rocket science, and it never has been. I think some listeners dig into it too much, disecting beats too much. if your not satisfied now, then I don't think you'll ever be. Nobody is gonna invent some new form of hip hop beats and even if they do, you'll have some that would hate on them anyway.

why are you talking about being a "some sort of musical genius" and "rocket science" lol.

Im guessing you post alot in audio booth.

No one ever said making a beat was "rocket science", or that you had to be "some sort of musical genius" to make one, YOU said that. All I said was actually being a naturally talented musician, helps in making good music.

Unless you think Hip Hop isnt music, and is something you can just throw together and post on soundclick, and be authentic. Youre exactly a good example of the problem we are facing, theres alot of dragging down of hip hop, to be a lesser form.

Ghost In The 'Lac · 05-13-2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAKHI the SOLORIAN

Jake One

and

Marco Polo

2 of the freshest beatmakers today

Ha.

Its really funny you said that, because Jake One was actually in my mind for an example of an "underground" producer who is part of the problem. Apart from being soft as fuck, he basically epitomises boredom and lack of "feel". And what I was talking about. But thats just my opinion, alot of people like Jake One, idk why.

But apart from that, coming away from his beats, he is a good example of the "producer" being like a rapper. He even got his own album named after him! What has Jake One done to warrent his own album? Not even Pete Rock had his own album until Soul Survivor. DJ Premier still hasnt had one! Or RZA! Dilla only had one after he died. Dre only had one in 2001. Jake One is trying to be the new one of those guys, with his own albums and stuff.

I hate that, I dont understand why people are so interested in buying albums like this. It should be more about the actual album, not whos producing it. What happened to the concept of an album? This might be bias just because i dont like Jake Ones beats at all. But im just saying. Hes wack lol.

To sum up more clear:-

Jake one bases all his hip hop on trying to be hip hop. He is clearly trying to hard to sound hip hop. You shouldnt be trying to sound hip hop, it should just be what you do. It should just be a medium for you expression. Not an expression for you medium (lolwat). I dont want to listen to artists that are making hip hop to try and be hip hop. And just want to listen to artists that are expressing themselves thru hip hop.

benzo · 05-13-2009, 04:28 PM

^^are you seriously not counting the Bob Digi albums because that wasn't "RZA" or was that just an oversight? or for non-rapping producers...Primos's "Beats That Collected Dust"..

claaa7 · 05-13-2009, 04:33 PM

RZA is a rapper too though and so is Dre, so it's not really the same but i'm with you on the point that these producer-albums often lack replay value because they lack a clear vision and is all over the place (with the exception of Pete Rock's LPs imo).

but a dope creative producer can pull of a concept-album with a running theme, just look at Prince Paul's work.

Ghost In The 'Lac · 05-13-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzo

^^are you seriously not counting the Bob Digi albums because that wasn't "RZA" or was that just an oversight? or for non-rapping producers...Primos's "Beats That Collected Dust"..

what? who is this^ kid? lol and why does he have vat status?

nice edit by the way, once you realised RZA is a rapper, adding Premier

Actually it was a terrible edit, Beats that collected dust, if you didnt know, was an instrumental album, and it only just came out. So for your first contribution to this thread, that was a brilliant effort "benzo".

benzo · 05-13-2009, 04:50 PM

You mad at the world motherfucker? I was building on your thread, not talking shit. Insecurity is a bitch ain't it? Goddamn, no wonder everyone here thinks you're a prick. Don't worry about my vat status. "Dust" didn't just come out...heard that shit months ago. How about "World According To.."? Go ahead, answer the question.

benzo · 05-13-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by benzo

Some of the best sample-based shit put out recently is that Beatnuts shit. THAT's how you put a track together and dudes have the musical ear for sure. Also, after bumping some old EPMD the other day I came to the realization that Dre bit their shit HARD. How did Dre "come out of nowhere" when he bit Eric Sermon and made albums almost exclusively by re-playing classic P-Funk joints?

^1st post faggot.

Ghost In The 'Lac · 05-13-2009, 04:59 PM

impressive. i dont know what your trying to do here but i respect your anger.

who are you again?

THE W · 05-13-2009, 05:42 PM

good point about "dilusion",

this happens in every genre of entertainment and as someone mentioned, it happens in life in general. for every innovator there are a million clones.

but really its not that big of a deal. there's still a good variety of rap out there and digital music has made it much easier to access it. you cant rely on MTV, BET, and the radio to give you everything you want anymore.

i guess it depends on whether you're looking for something thats innovative and new or you're just looking for something that sounds good that you can nod your head to.

The Prime Sithesizah · 05-13-2009, 07:29 PM

I definitely had to say something in this subject matter..

I agree with the few that say beatmaking has become an easy, lazy format of creating music. However, it's the individuals looping and using the same familiar American samples. I'm one of the producers from the Audio Booth, very original and pretty much cannot be compared to any producer and I dont think anyone's going to deny that. I witness many producers (or beatmakers as you say) come through and receive massive credibility off of simple shit that anyone else could have made. Not their own style. Not their own mentality and all influence. The initial problem with beatmaking is that everyone wants to be the "NEXT". The NEXT Dr. Dre. The NEXT Rza. The NEXT Kanye. Whoever it may be! Beatmaking can be taken to new heights, but the beatmakers are extremely lazy. I feel like alot of them in this world just find the easiest shit they can twist and call it something "dope" in terms of what they want people to think. Take that same beat and see if someone else will listen to it an entire year, most likely.. that's rare. The innovative producers don't necessarily have influences, but rather beatmakers or producers or musicians we study. In a sense, because I made this case months and months ago, music theory equals dope beats. REAL dope beats to a point where it's complicated. It's not just notes or any of that, music theory is practically all creativity. The 808s and Synths are destroying music, self explanatory with the stuff being placed on the markets today. Whereas, look at.. DJ Premier; Erick Sermon; Q-Tip; RZA and Dr. Dre. Each one of these beatmakers gave you something refreshing and have given birth to a whole new breed of beatmakers or have opened your mind as a beatmaker in some way. So.. I wouldn't necessarily say Beatmaking in Hip-Hop has stagnated.. it's just the ones like Polo and SouljaBoy that get off with it easily and make ignorant cats think they can do the shit and start something of a genesis in sound. It depends on what you listen to and what you look for.. and 9/10.. your favorite producer or that one beatmaker you check for is sampling something you're not going to listen to months from now!

The Prime Sithesizah · 05-13-2009, 07:32 PM

My thing is this.. UNDERSTAND Music Theory from every angle.. that way, nobody will fuck up music.. study some other producers and musicians OUTSIDE of Hip-Hop smh.. I feel that's the MAIN problem..

benzo · 05-13-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GHOSTLACED

But apart from that, coming away from his beats, he is a good example of the "producer" being like a rapper. He even got his own album named after him! What has Jake One done to warrent his own album? Not even Pete Rock had his own album until Soul Survivor. DJ Premier still hasnt had one! Or RZA! Dilla only had one after he died. Dre only had one in 2001. Jake One is trying to be the new one of those guys, with his own albums and stuff.

"The World According to RZA". One producer's beats with others rapping, just like Soul Survivor....since you didn't answer the question.

Erquel · 05-14-2009, 02:31 AM

creativity? originality?
here you go
dude practically is having sex with MPC
saw him live the other day and i gotta say i've never seen/heard anything more inspiring and beautiful in my entire life

BLACK BART SIMPSON · 05-14-2009, 02:53 PM

thats hip hop shit...i dont even wanna go into dipset beats or prodigy/mobb deep shit cuz those are new styles in their own....

these beats r beyond ill

Don Universo · 05-14-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GHOSTLACED

why are you talking about being a "some sort of musical genius" and "rocket science" lol.

Im guessing you post alot in audio booth.

No one ever said making a beat was "rocket science", or that you had to be "some sort of musical genius" to make one, YOU said that. All I said was actually being a naturally talented musician, helps in making good music.

Unless you think Hip Hop isnt music, and is something you can just throw together and post on soundclick, and be authentic. Youre exactly a good example of the problem we are facing, theres alot of dragging down of hip hop, to be a lesser form.

Never even been to the "audio booth" I'm guessing that's on this site? I do think hip hop is music, of course...just sayin being a good musician doesn't automatically qualify you to be a dope hip hop producer. You must be so sick of beats because you try to disect the shit so much. With all that said if you were an emcee who would you want to produce your album?

05-13-2009, 04:28 PM	#48
benzo Wu Vatican Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 2,005 Rep Power: 14	^^are you seriously not counting the Bob Digi albums because that wasn't "RZA" or was that just an oversight? or for non-rapping producers...Primos's "Beats That Collected Dust".. Last edited by benzo; 05-13-2009 at 04:36 PM.

05-13-2009, 04:33 PM	#49
claaa7 Killer Bob Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: THE BLACK LODGE Posts: 12,024 Rep Power: 68	RZA is a rapper too though and so is Dre, so it's not really the same but i'm with you on the point that these producer-albums often lack replay value because they lack a clear vision and is all over the place (with the exception of Pete Rock's LPs imo). but a dope creative producer can pull of a concept-album with a running theme, just look at Prince Paul's work. __________________ http://www.claaa7.blogspot.com daily updates: news, articles, reviews, the best compilations on the net. that true skool street hop! r.i.p. Kaddu & "Slick Rick" and the rest of the fallen soldiers - you'll never be forgotten

05-13-2009, 04:59 PM	#53
Ghost In The 'Lac crushed out heavenly Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 20,420 Rep Power: 65	impressive. i dont know what your trying to do here but i respect your anger. who are you again? __________________ ....2m22s.......

05-13-2009, 05:42 PM	#54
THE W ISRAELITE Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: in Christ Posts: 15,466 Rep Power: 44	good point about "dilusion", this happens in every genre of entertainment and as someone mentioned, it happens in life in general. for every innovator there are a million clones. but really its not that big of a deal. there's still a good variety of rap out there and digital music has made it much easier to access it. you cant rely on MTV, BET, and the radio to give you everything you want anymore. i guess it depends on whether you're looking for something thats innovative and new or you're just looking for something that sounds good that you can nod your head to. __________________ The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

05-13-2009, 07:29 PM	#55
The Prime Sithesizah Pioneer Of Cerebral Music Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,199 Rep Power: 15	I definitely had to say something in this subject matter.. I agree with the few that say beatmaking has become an easy, lazy format of creating music. However, it's the individuals looping and using the same familiar American samples. I'm one of the producers from the Audio Booth, very original and pretty much cannot be compared to any producer and I dont think anyone's going to deny that. I witness many producers (or beatmakers as you say) come through and receive massive credibility off of simple shit that anyone else could have made. Not their own style. Not their own mentality and all influence. The initial problem with beatmaking is that everyone wants to be the "NEXT". The NEXT Dr. Dre. The NEXT Rza. The NEXT Kanye. Whoever it may be! Beatmaking can be taken to new heights, but the beatmakers are extremely lazy. I feel like alot of them in this world just find the easiest shit they can twist and call it something "dope" in terms of what they want people to think. Take that same beat and see if someone else will listen to it an entire year, most likely.. that's rare. The innovative producers don't necessarily have influences, but rather beatmakers or producers or musicians we study. In a sense, because I made this case months and months ago, music theory equals dope beats. REAL dope beats to a point where it's complicated. It's not just notes or any of that, music theory is practically all creativity. The 808s and Synths are destroying music, self explanatory with the stuff being placed on the markets today. Whereas, look at.. DJ Premier; Erick Sermon; Q-Tip; RZA and Dr. Dre. Each one of these beatmakers gave you something refreshing and have given birth to a whole new breed of beatmakers or have opened your mind as a beatmaker in some way. So.. I wouldn't necessarily say Beatmaking in Hip-Hop has stagnated.. it's just the ones like Polo and SouljaBoy that get off with it easily and make ignorant cats think they can do the shit and start something of a genesis in sound. It depends on what you listen to and what you look for.. and 9/10.. your favorite producer or that one beatmaker you check for is sampling something you're not going to listen to months from now! __________________ The Prime Sithesizah [Facebook/Myspace]

05-13-2009, 04:50 PM	#51
benzo Wu Vatican Join Date: Jun 2005 Age: 32 Posts: 2,005 Rep Power: 14	You mad at the world motherfucker? I was building on your thread, not talking shit. Insecurity is a bitch ain't it? Goddamn, no wonder everyone here thinks you're a prick. Don't worry about my vat status. "Dust" didn't just come out...heard that shit months ago. How about "World According To.."? Go ahead, answer the question.

05-13-2009, 07:32 PM	#56
The Prime Sithesizah Pioneer Of Cerebral Music Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 1,199 Rep Power: 15	My thing is this.. UNDERSTAND Music Theory from every angle.. that way, nobody will fuck up music.. study some other producers and musicians OUTSIDE of Hip-Hop smh.. I feel that's the MAIN problem.. __________________ The Prime Sithesizah [Facebook/Myspace]

05-14-2009, 02:31 AM	#58
Erquel The Chef Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,225 Rep Power: 10	creativity? originality? here you go dude practically is having sex with MPC saw him live the other day and i gotta say i've never seen/heard anything more inspiring and beautiful in my entire life Last edited by Erquel; 05-14-2009 at 02:34 AM.

05-14-2009, 02:53 PM	#59
BLACK BART SIMPSON Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,566 Rep Power: 26	thats hip hop shit...i dont even wanna go into dipset beats or prodigy/mobb deep shit cuz those are new styles in their own.... these beats r beyond ill __________________ Last edited by BLACK BART SIMPSON; 05-14-2009 at 02:59 PM.

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