Just to be clear on something reggaeton is NOT hip-hop

[MaskedAvenger]

Its not hip hop just because the hip hop culture is the 'in' thing at the moment doesn't make any other type of music that has some sort of HIP HOP influence hip hop. Is Limp Bizkit hip hop because he spits a few verses here and there? fuck reggaton, that music is straight garbage.

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Originally Posted by Nick Fury

kid most of those cats u listed aren't even remotely hip hop , but its not worth arguing over anyways

You must have a skewed view of what is hip hop in order to say something like that. No Mel Syndicate may have been anti-reggae beats, but they sure as hell performed at every reggae concert, and even tried to recruit reggaeton dj's and artists when they were forming (I know because they visited my house in Villa Chrisitiana in Loiza in 1995 to recruit my brother, DJ Tito).

It's also ridiculous to judge a genre based on someone's opinion of it. Musical genres are placed by their reality, not by the opinions of those who don't like the music. There is always a group of self righteous backpackers standing around saying "our music is hip hop, yours is not". It has been my experience that those who are truly gifted in music, and are masters of their artform don't go around trying to convince others that theirs is the true artform while that of others is not. If you have to convince others that Reggaeton is not hip hop, it is most likely because you are pissed off, and disillusioned, mad because no one wants to listen to your favorite rapper.

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Poetic Wun, you've taken what I've said out of context and tried to make what you've said the truth of what I've said. If you don't understand my statements and have to restate them for your understanding, then so be it, but to skew my statements is childish and deceitful.

In my statements regarding the advent of hip hop, I stated much more than what you are letting on- I emphasized that Latin influence in Hip Hop, which you fail to recognize in your adulteration of my statements. Furthermore, you have a skewed view of what it is to be Latin American. You seem to want to emphasize a European influence in Puerto Rican (and Latin American) culture by calling us Spanish (Spanish is a language and a nationality, not a derivative thereof). This is pure ignorance in that you are also implying that somehow African American culture is devoid of European influence, all the while making these statements in a European language.

Furthermore, what you state to be by "my own admission" is a lie.

"Hip-Hop is a culture that associates itself with Rap music which is an evolution of Reggae AFTER Jamaicans brought their music over here to America.
respectfully, the same evolution occurred in Puerto Rico thus spawning Reggeton"

-I never made those statements. You have taken my statements out of context, adulterated them, and tried to pass them off as my actual statements. What I said was that Kool Herc was Jamaican- I did not say he evolved Reggae into Hip Hop. In fact, the majority of his music was Rock mixed with Latin Percussion. I didn't say the same evolution occured in Puerto Rico thus spawning Reggaeton- in fact, I influenced the early involvement of Puerto Ricans in Hip Hop to show how it influenced Cacoteo culture on the island. Cacoteo is merely the localized culture of Hip Hop in Puerto Rico whereas groups like No Mel Syndicate preferred American Hip Hop, Cacos developed their own. Whereas No Mel imitated groups like Wu Tang, Cacos embraced their Carribean roots and played with both Hip Hop and Dancehall beats.

In any case, it is ridiculous to limit the reach of Hip Hop and put it in your little box simply because you don't like a particular aspect of it.

Furthermore it is ridiculous of you to imply a hijacking of African culture by separating Latinos from African culture through your implications of our hijacking of an "African American" style of expression. You are obviously truly ignorant to the Puerto Rican reality of all of our music being rooted in African music. Rappers existed in Puerto Rico long before Hip Hop in the form of Trovadores, and in the "Call and Response" of Bomba which is rooted directly in Yoruba tradition. We share common musical styles with Cuba such as Gua Guanco, Rhumba, Salsa, and each of their derivatives which are all firmly rooted in African culture. The fact that Puerto Ricans were attracted to Hip Hop early on is only expected. It is also, however, this experience that led us to fuse different African styles (in this case Dancehall Reggae and African-American Rap beats) into what is now commercially known as Reggaeton, and what was known back then simply as Rap. This fusion is not uncommon in African derived communities, even in Hip Hop which is rooted in Rock. Though Hip Hop is clearly not Rock, to this day rappers invoke Rock terminology and even clothing. With Reggaeton we took influences from the Hip Hop community, but we also have fully partaken of the culture and some have even helped the genre evolve (like Tony Touch who became a producer through the mentoring of Nico Canada- the original Reggaeton producer). Nico Canada and Tony Touch had significant influences in both genres by bringing them together on projects like Boricua Guerrero, which featured the likes of Nas, Method Man, KRS One, Big Pun, and others, and Guatauba.

The fact is that Reggaeton has a rich history rooted in the Hip Hop culture, and those who are ignorant of that are either willingly ignorant simply because they don't like Reggaeton, or have made judgments without being educated on a subject they think they are educated on.

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Originally Posted by MaskedAvenger

Its not hip hop just because the hip hop culture is the 'in' thing at the moment doesn't make any other type of music that has some sort of HIP HOP influence hip hop. Is Limp Bizkit hip hop because he spits a few verses here and there? fuck reggaton, that music is straight garbage.

Perfect example of what I said in my previous post. I bet you can't name more than 5 Reggaeton artists. You can take Reggaeton out of the context of his statement and replace that with almost any Hip Hop artist and anyone with an ignorant state of mind can take it as fact.

[Poetic Wun]

First of all i never made negative comments toward you, im trying to debate respectfully with you.

Secondly, i explained the Puerto Rican heritage a little, i didn't emphasize the European aspect to the degree you portrayed me to have. i said Latino in my statements after that. I'm a Latino myself.

on a side note
i know my etymology nig, words are my life.

Thirdly, "By Your Own Admission" was not "technically" what you said but essentially. I don't speak unless i know what im sayin.

and i know what im saying.
your love for Reggaeton and want for it to be considered hip hop will not be persuaded.
so i digress with one last thing just because...

Gangster Rap, Crunk, etc... are not sub-hip-hop.
that's ludicrous.
Hip Hop is not a blanket anyone can spread over whatever they choose to make it "cool".
Gangster Rap is a form of rap that is rooted in the gang culture.
just because niggas wanna act like retarded thugs doesn't mean niggas should get it twisted and consider that hip hop.
Crunk is just that.

I used to love H.E.R.... till she became a prostitute for the masses.

[Nick Fury]

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

So to sum it up, Reggaeton is derived this way:

A certain group of Spanish/Latin people create their song by using an African American method of rhythmic spoken delivery for their lyrics while using a variant of Jamaican music calling this mixture "Reggaeton" and this is... Hip-Hop?

You stated Hip-Hop derived from dancehall/reggae via Jamaican DJ's migrating to America.
So technically [BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION], Hip-Hop is a culture that associates itself with Rap music which is an evolution of Reggae AFTER Jamaicans brought their music over here to America.
respectfully, the same evolution occurred in Puerto Rico thus spawning Reggeton.

Hip Hop does not house Reggae that which holds a sub-genre of Reggaeton thus giving those artists the right to, through 6 degrees of separation, call their music Hip Hop.

[Nick Fury]

Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI

You must have a skewed view of what is hip hop in order to say something like that.

yea cus maicol y manuel are the illest that ever did it smh

Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI

No Mel Syndicate may have been anti-reggae beats, but they sure as hell performed at every reggae concert, and even tried to recruit reggaeton dj's and artists when they were forming (I know because they visited my house in Villa Chrisitiana in Loiza in 1995 to recruit my brother, DJ Tito).

if your a musician wouldnt you do shows where ever you can be accepted ?

Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI

It's also ridiculous to judge a genre based on someone's opinion of it. Musical genres are placed by their reality, not by the opinions of those who don't like the music. There is always a group of self righteous backpackers standing around saying "our music is hip hop, yours is not".

fucking backpackers make me so angry

Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI

It has been my experience that those who are truly gifted in music, and are masters of their artform don't go around trying to convince others that theirs is the true artform while that of others is not. If you have to convince others that Reggaeton is not hip hop

lol I posted some music , got feed back from some of the spanish speakers on this site , put them on to some rappers from PR that they most likely never heard of before and most of who dont want to be labled as reggaeton or w/e name change , who ever listens can decide for themselves , but I guess you found out my hidden agenda

Originally Posted by WuLatino- MANGANI

, it is most likely because you are pissed off, and disillusioned, mad

pissed off , mad and disillusioned ? thanks for the free psyc evaluation you have me all figured out , dont get ahead of yourself kid lol , my bad if you took what I wrote b4 to the heart , you made some valid points in your other posts that I agree with but no need to act like a dickhead

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

First of all i never made negative comments toward you, im trying to debate respectfully with you.

-Respectfully or not, I debate rationally. It is rational, and impartial to your opponent to lay the benefit of the doubt on ignorance on a subject, rather than claim your opponent is plain stupid. Ignorance is the lack of knowledge of a subject, and is taken as offensive when a rational argument cannot be made in defense of the original argument. I have made no negative comments against you either. I've merely stated the facts, and corrected you where you needed to be corrected- especially in your miscategorization of my statements.

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

Secondly, i explained the Puerto Rican heritage a little, i didn't emphasize the European aspect to the degree you portrayed me to have. i said Latino in my statements after that. I'm a Latino myself.

-Being a Latino does not make you more apt to making intelligent assessments of the Latino culture as a whole, or of a nationality within that culture as an individual. The fact that you referred to us as "spanish" speaks for itself. You said:

"Puerto Rican's, anymore, have a European decent from the source of Spain making them "spanish or latin"

Within the context of this, and your follow up statements you were clearly attempting to make a distinction between Puerto Ricans and African-Americans as if Puerto Ricans were hijacking African-American culture. I corrected this assumption, and pointed out the African roots in Puerto Ricans as a nationality, and in our music and culture. I didn't "portray" your statements as you suggest, rather I quoted you.

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

on a side note
i know my etymology nig, words are my life.

-If words are your life, you should attempt to use them wisely. In attempting to sound intelligent, or endowed with a verbal gift you succumb to ignorance and refer to me as "nig" when none of my communication suggests I would not consider that derogatory or disrespectful. Note- it is not your simple use of this term that is offensive, rather the praise you bring upon yourself in the same sentence.

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

Thirdly, "By Your Own Admission" was not "technically" what you said but essentially. I don't speak unless i know what im sayin.

-As I pointed out in my last post, it was neither "technically" what I was saying, nor "essentially". "Technically" in this context would actually be synonymous with "essentially", as both are only derivatives of what could have "literally" been said.

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

Gangster Rap, Crunk, etc... are not sub-hip-hop.
that's ludicrous.
Hip Hop is not a blanket

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

anyone can spread over whatever they choose to make it "cool".
Gangster Rap is a form of rap that is rooted in the gang culture.
just because niggas wanna act like retarded thugs doesn't mean niggas should get it twisted and consider that hip hop.
Crunk is just that.

-(Not that any of my statements had anything to with this...but) These are opinions, and not facts. Maybe these forms of Rap are not the purest, most artful, or expressive (or any other opinionated judgment you can make of these forms of Hip Hop), but they are definitely part of the overall culture and music of Hip Hop. In fact, some of the earliest Hip Hop artists, if debuting today, would be considered Gangster Rap (I have no defense for Crunk). Afrika Bambaata was a warlord member of the Black Spades, and incorporated the gang into the Universal Zulu Nation. Schooly D, KRS One and Boogie Down Productions (among others) are considered the pioneers of gangster rap, along with Ice T on the West Coast.

Originally Posted by Poetic Wun

I used to love H.E.R.... till she became a prostitute for the masses.

-The masses cannot adulterate what I will always love.

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Originally Posted by Nick Fury

yea cus maicol y manuel are the illest that ever did it smh

-Hands down. (Just wait til their new shit starts comin out... though they're not a group anymore)

Originally Posted by Nick Fury

if your a musician wouldnt you do shows where ever you can be accepted ?

-Not necessarily. I mean, they weren't trying to get gigs at rock concerts or clubs. They got in where they fit in, which was with the Caco crowd. The difference in PR was that the Hip Hop heads didn't speak as much Spanish, and were fluent in English. The Cacos didn't know English, and loved Reggae and Dancehall just as much as they loved Hip Hop. The B-Boys hung out with both (I was a Caco even though I was fluent in English because I was already deep into Dancehall, AND I was fluent in both... AND I was raised in Cali so I didn't have that NY flavor)

Originally Posted by Nick Fury

fucking backpackers make me so angry

-Don't they do that though? Everytime a new backpacker comes out (like Lupe Fiasco), all of a sudden nothing else is Hip Hop! I feel these wack ass commercial Reggaepop punks make everyone in Hip Hop go "that's not Hip Hop"! Tempo would eat 90% of the rappers out there alive, and he is definitely a Reggaeton artist, yet he is definitely Hip Hop... (that also goes for Polaco, Eddie Dee, and others)

Originally Posted by Nick Fury

pissed off , mad and disillusioned ? thanks for the free psyc evaluation you have me all figured out , dont get ahead of yourself kid lol , my bad if you took what I wrote b4 to the heart , you made some valid points in your other posts that I agree with but no need to act like a dickhead

-You know what though- you SHOULD be pissed off. RKM and Ken Y, Arcangel, and all these other punks misrepresent Reggaeton, and make it difficult for REAL artists to shine cause all them little girls buy up their CD's, and that's what labels you in the industry- SALES. Because the top selling artists who ever made a Reggaeton track now make pop songs and sing like bitches on every track- that's what industry people are labeling as Reggaeton while those within the genre itself are pushing them OUT.

[WuLatino- MANGANI]

Originally Posted by nick fury

lol!