0
 

home
news
wu-tang clan
bio's
media
store
blogs
forum
contact

Go Back   Wu-Tang Corp. - Official Site of the Wu-Tang Clan > The Elements > Know The Ledge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-29-2011, 11:22 AM   #31
THE MASON
Winter is Coming
 
THE MASON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Temple of the King
Posts: 12,250
Rep Power: 128
THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)THE MASON Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
how is a religious person gonna rebel against god like he would against other men? if you're religious, you probably accept that god's will just "is what it is". nothing you can do to change it so why fight it? being oppressed by god and by men aren't the same thing.
very few people actually fight against a so called "illuminati", matter fact, i dont think any do. so i respects, there are accepting it for what it is.

the two are very comparable. for example both are seen to control aspects of daily life. both sets guidelines to follow, or reap consequences and so on.

similarly, both cant truly be proven, you can show me all these meetings and sub groups or whatever, but is there really a "world power" or "illuminati" besides conspiracy nuts i havent seen viable evidence, as of yet. same with some sort of divine, celestial power.

its almost human nature it seems to give some unexplained things definition by applying a Higher Power Theory to secure ourselves and cease individual questioning.

rebelling against god would simply mean not believing in his existence therefore you feel no consequences. rebelling against the "powers that be" would mean extracting yourself from society.

the question still remains of hypocrisy, how can a firm belief in god hold one person from believing in an "illuminati" type society.
__________________

ELITE STATUS
THE MASON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 11:34 AM   #32
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal Guillotine View Post
The trouble with the traditional scientific method would be that the observer is left out of the observation, conspiracy theory's use this approach as well. We are inescapably part of the whole.

Could you please explain how you would define the "traditional scientific method" and how the observer is left out of the observation.

Thank you for your post.
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 11:48 AM   #33
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
how is a religious person gonna rebel against god like he would against other men? if you're religious, you probably accept that god's will just "is what it is". nothing you can do to change it so why fight it? being oppressed by god and by men aren't the same thing.
I think you've missed the point. It's not about how you can or cannot rebel against God.

It's about how one can believe in God and follow the teachings of religion and at the same time rebel against a perceived threat from the global elite when in principle, the two things are the same.


Are you suggesting that you reduce dissonance due to a certain trust in God and scripture, a trust that cannot be vested in mortal men?
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:02 PM   #34
cutn' heads
mic fury
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,418
Rep Power: 23
cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post


Are you suggesting that you reduce dissonance due to a certain trust in God and scripture, a trust that cannot be vested in mortal men?
that is my assertion, yes.
__________________
download this album...
http://groovecrushgorillas.bandcamp.com/
cutn' heads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:09 PM   #35
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Then I must ask what is it that makes God and scripture so trustworthy?
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:13 PM   #36
cutn' heads
mic fury
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,418
Rep Power: 23
cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

then i have to jump off the boat. im not a religious person. i was just answering from a common sense point of view. i see where youre going with this. thier answer will always end with "faith". you cannot reason them out it.
__________________
download this album...
http://groovecrushgorillas.bandcamp.com/
cutn' heads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:22 PM   #37
diggy
The ABBOTT
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: O-Block
Posts: 10,893
Blog Entries: 4
Rep Power: 50
diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)diggy Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Robert, what is your point?
__________________







Quote:
Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!
diggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:24 PM   #38
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
then i have to jump off the boat. im not a religious person. i was just answering from a common sense point of view. i see where youre going with this. thier answer will always end with "faith". you cannot reason them out it.
This is not necessarily true. It could be argued for example that the two concepts are markedly different and thus abiding by one and repelling the other wouldn't lead to dissonance in the first place.
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:30 PM   #39
cutn' heads
mic fury
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,418
Rep Power: 23
cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)cutn' heads Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
This is not necessarily true. It could be argued for example that the two concepts are markedly different and thus abiding by one and repelling the other wouldn't lead to dissonance in the first place.
then you have answered your original question.
__________________
download this album...
http://groovecrushgorillas.bandcamp.com/
cutn' heads is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:39 PM   #40
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMJ View Post
Robert, what is your point?
I suppose my point is to highlight that there is a price to pay for reducing dissonance.

You can't do it without limiting yourself in some way or being morally corrupted by it.

It is important that in all instances we acknowledge the moments where we succumb to such dissonance, question those conflicting ideas and thus further our overall understanding of them.


Is that such a scary notion?
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 12:41 PM   #41
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutn' heads View Post
then you have answered your original question.
No, I just proposed that there are alternatives.
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 01:39 PM   #42
Clan Destine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Rep Power: 0
Clan Destine crouching tigerClan Destine crouching tiger
Default

I think you can avoid the dissonance by simply saying one is good and one is bad.

I think that these divine and earthly systems are symptoms of the human being's need to construct a sensible universe with an ultimate cause. Fucked up things on the earth are here because of (insert secret society), existence and my conduct within it is ordered and guided by (insert X God). The important thing is that the explanation has a definite willing human like agent behind it. The sensation of meaninglessness, the anarchy of events, the void of significance, are what is avoided here.
Clan Destine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2011, 02:05 PM   #43
Robert
1%
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The Invisible College
Posts: 7,385
Rep Power: 54
Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Robert Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clan Destine View Post
I think you can avoid the dissonance by simply saying one is good and one is bad.

I think that these divine and earthly systems are symptoms of the human being's need to construct a sensible universe with an ultimate cause. Fucked up things on the earth are here because of (insert secret society), existence and my conduct within it is ordered and guided by (insert X God). The important thing is that the explanation has a definite willing human like agent behind it. The sensation of meaninglessness, the anarchy of events, the void of significance, are what is avoided here.
Rep when I have it.
__________________











Robert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2011, 03:04 AM   #44
Uncle Steezo
Gen Chat Bully
 
Uncle Steezo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 5th Dimension
Posts: 14,725
Rep Power: 117
Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)Uncle Steezo Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

i think its a common misconception by atheists that those who choose to believe in a creator are lacking fulfillment or meaning and therefore feel the need to believe in something greater than self.

2ndly, the illuminati and skygod (bearded man on cloud) are mutually exclusive concepts. this is mostly due the the belief that organized religion is under the control of the illuminati.
Uncle Steezo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2011, 10:34 AM   #45
Clan Destine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Rep Power: 0
Clan Destine crouching tigerClan Destine crouching tiger
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLE View Post
i think its a common misconception by atheists that those who choose to believe in a creator are lacking fulfillment or meaning and therefore feel the need to believe in something greater than self.

2ndly, the illuminati and skygod (bearded man on cloud) are mutually exclusive concepts. this is mostly due the the belief that organized religion is under the control of the illuminati.
Everybody is lacking fulfillment and total meaning. We wouldn't be here otherwise. On the other hand, it is actually impossible to truly see existence as totally meaningless. We make meaning no matter what, unless we are dead, in oblivion. What is constant in us is the aversion and fear to the sparseness or impersonality of significance. The fear, not the actuality (because it is near impossible).

And everybody does this in some way, in different degrees, from the religious, to the independently spiritual, the atheist, the humanist, the positivist, even the nihilist. Also, just because it is a symptom, it doesn't necessarily make it not true. Belief is art. Art is not true or untrue.

Personally, however, I think an outlook that doesn't involve some consideration of psychology or deep self skepticism, or an intellectual conscience, is in poor taste (as art), no matter what label is on it.
Clan Destine is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Copyright 2000 - 2013 The Wu-Tang Corp. & shift-one