Last man standing, K-Rino vs Gza?

[noel411]

There are at the absolute maximum 5 rappers whose lyrics consistently impress me. Gza and K-Rino are 2 of them. The top 2 actually. In fact the only 2 I could name without thinking about it. Really maybe the only 2. Dude says K-Rino has a lot of filler lines...99.9% of rappers have pretty much nothing but filler lines.

I don't get it. It's like dudes listen to all these clones who have no creativity, individuality, authenticity, passion, or talent, and then they discover someone like K-Rino and don't even recognise that he's something special.

And yes, not everything he does is brilliant. Dude mentioned the song where he tells 2 stories at once. I've never found that track impressive and don't even think it's a great concept. I'd call it a miss. Another really disappointing track for me is 'Candy', where he had a go at the whole 'Labels', 'Fame' type thing, but really just told a story where he used the names of confectionery as the names for the people in the story. Another miss creatively. He's not infallible. Nobody is. I could name several Gza songs that I consider to have missed the mark lyrically too. He's nowhere near as consistent as people make out.

Also, I asked this in another thread and nobody answered me, but when did K-Rino become so widely known? I've been listening to him for probably about 10 years and during that time made several attempts to put people onto him, but my attempts repeatedly fell on deaf ears. Nobody had ever heard of him of nobody was interested in hearing him. What did he do to gain such recognition as he now has? I must have totally missed something.

[rakimkoolgrapwutang]

Originally Posted by noel411

There are at the absolute maximum 5 rappers whose lyrics consistently impress me. Gza and K-Rino are 2 of them. The top 2 actually. In fact the only 2 I could name without thinking about it. Really maybe the only 2. Dude says K-Rino has a lot of filler lines...99.9% of rappers have pretty much nothing but filler lines.

I don't get it. It's like dudes listen to all these clones who have no creativity, individuality, authenticity, passion, or talent, and then they discover someone like K-Rino and don't even recognise that he's something special.

And yes, not everything he does is brilliant. Dude mentioned the song where he tells 2 stories at once. I've never found that track impressive and don't even think it's a great concept. I'd call it a miss. Another really disappointing track for me is 'Candy', where he had a go at the whole 'Labels', 'Fame' type thing, but really just told a story where he used the names of confectionery as the names for the people in the story. Another miss creatively. He's not infallible. Nobody is. I could name several Gza songs that I consider to have missed the mark lyrically too. He's nowhere near as consistent as people make out.

Also, I asked this in another thread and nobody answered me, but when did K-Rino become so widely known? I've been listening to him for probably about 10 years and during that time made several attempts to put people onto him, but my attempts repeatedly fell on deaf ears. Nobody had ever heard of him of nobody was interested in hearing him. What did he do to gain such recognition as he now has? I must have totally missed something.

he wasnt that gr8 until around 2005/06 so its more recently people have become interested. hes in my top 10 lyricists. not sure whereabouts. but k rinos lyrics dont blow me away anymore. most gza songs blow me away. when do u think gza is off the mark except pro tools or words from the genius. lyricists i consider better than k rino are: gza j live aceyalone one be lo gift of gab and illogic. k rino i think is around same level as canibus aesop rock or possibly nas except nas is very inconsistent so probably not him. who r ur top 5 lyricists

[CEITEDMOFO]

IF YOU KNOW WHO K RINO IS MOST LIKELY YOUR A FAGGiT

[noel411]

Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang

he wasnt that gr8 until around 2005/06 so its more recently people have become interested. hes in my top 10 lyricists. not sure whereabouts. but k rinos lyrics dont blow me away anymore. most gza songs blow me away. when do u think gza is off the mark except pro tools or words from the genius. lyricists i consider better than k rino are: gza j live aceyalone one be lo gift of gab and illogic. k rino i think is around same level as canibus aesop rock or possibly nas except nas is very inconsistent so probably not him. who r ur top 5 lyricists

But nobody seemed to have even heard of him until the last couple of years. He didn't improve that much that he would have suddenly captured people's attention. He's always been a notable lyricist. Did he do some guest spots on well known artists' albums or something?

Some Gza songs which I think are average lyrically would be:

Labels (just because he says a bunch of record labels doesn't mean it's a great verse. It's got some great lines but overall it's not that great lyrically)
I Gotcha Back
Victim
Auto Bio
Animal Planet

I really haven't listened to a lot of Gza in recent years but there would definitely be a few more I could name.

As for my top 5 lyricists it'd be really hard to say. I'm generally just not impressed by hip hop lyrics. The 2 guys discussed here would be my top 2. Probably the best hip hop album I've heard, lyrically, is Cryptic One's 'Anti-Mobius Strip Theory', but that's all he's ever done as far as I know. Killah Priest can be exceptional, but can also be quite shit. Not very consistent. 'Heavy Mental' is a very lyrical album.

Canibus can be great but is massively inconsistent. And I don't just mean from verse to verse. I mean that he very rarely writes a whole verse that doesn't have poor lines in it. Plus I don't like the fact that a lot of his shit doesn't even rhyme on paper. And the big word shit is just fucken lame and embarrassing.

When it comes down to it I much prefer somebody like MF Grimm, whose lyrics are simple but actually saying something, to all these faggots with their complex multis and over-thought similies and shit. That shit just doesn't impress me in the least.

In the end I just don't find hip hop lyrics in general to be very impressive. The 2 guys mentioned are probably the only ones who would make me think, 'yeah, that's good writing, I'd be proud to have written that', with any kind of consistency.

[noel411]

Originally Posted by COLUMBIANA

IF YOU KNOW WHO K RINO IS MOST LIKELY YOUR A FAGGiT

Um, dude, I'm really ashamed to actually be acknowledging one of your comments, but it simply must be pointed out that clearly you know who K-Rino is. Did that fact just escape you when you made that comment?

[CEITEDMOFO]

NEVER HEARD OF HiM, IS HE SOME JUGGALO FAGGIT?

[noel411]

He's a Kenyan rhinoceros farmer.

[J-Cee]

yeh to be honest i didnt hear of K rino till a couple years ago and it was through wucorp..
the guys work ethic is ridiculous,20+ albums,so of course theres gonna be some songs that arent his best work.He should definitely be more well known than he is.

[rakimkoolgrapwutang]

Originally Posted by noel411

But nobody seemed to have even heard of him until the last couple of years. He didn't improve that much that he would have suddenly captured people's attention. He's always been a notable lyricist. Did he do some guest spots on well known artists' albums or something?

Some Gza songs which I think are average lyrically would be:

Labels (just because he says a bunch of record labels doesn't mean it's a great verse. It's got some great lines but overall it's not that great lyrically)
I Gotcha Back
Victim
Auto Bio
Animal Planet

I really haven't listened to a lot of Gza in recent years but there would definitely be a few more I could name.

As for my top 5 lyricists it'd be really hard to say. I'm generally just not impressed by hip hop lyrics. The 2 guys discussed here would be my top 2. Probably the best hip hop album I've heard, lyrically, is Cryptic One's 'Anti-Mobius Strip Theory', but that's all he's ever done as far as I know. Killah Priest can be exceptional, but can also be quite shit. Not very consistent. 'Heavy Mental' is a very lyrical album.

Canibus can be great but is massively inconsistent. And I don't just mean from verse to verse. I mean that he very rarely writes a whole verse that doesn't have poor lines in it. Plus I don't like the fact that a lot of his shit doesn't even rhyme on paper. And the big word shit is just fucken lame and embarrassing.

When it comes down to it I much prefer somebody like MF Grimm, whose lyrics are simple but actually saying something, to all these faggots with their complex multis and over-thought similies and shit. That shit just doesn't impress me in the least.

In the end I just don't find hip hop lyrics in general to be very impressive. The 2 guys mentioned are probably the only ones who would make me think, 'yeah, that's good writing, I'd be proud to have written that', with any kind of consistency.

i actually agree a lot with labels. i think its 1 of the weaker tracks on liquid swords. but i would still put a lotta the lyrics above a lotta k rino lyrics but maybe thats just me.

i gotcha back has gr8 lyrics imo. its got gr8 lines like

What is the meaning of CRIME (what?)
Is it Criminals Robbin Innocent Motherfuckers Everytime?

the last 3 lines have a dope baseball metaphor and i think the song has dope storytelling like

Little shorties take walks to the schoolyard
Tryin to solve the puzzles to why is life so hard
Then as soon as they reached the playground, blaow!
Shots ring off and now one of them lay down

thats very graphic 2 me but its true that the song isnt 100% consistent throughout. lines like

Back on the Ave of Lavonia and Bristol with a pistol
Stickin up Pamela and Crystal
arent that difficult

and the video game metaphor in the song is pretty simple. i think the lyrics above average but ur right not has consistent as people think

victim is definitely not 1 of his best but it had very dope imagery and i think the ending was gr8 when he blasted his gun to get rid of his stress

Caught up in the (silk) web of (material)
Superficial stains ya brain (tissue)

i also believe that theres wordplay with silk material and issue. i think theyre connected and i think that gza words some things very well. instead of saying stuff like the youth are stupid he says


Can't even spell the shit that he be wearin (i also think this might b connected to the next lines cuz in this line he mentions clothes then he mentions clothes terms like silk and material)

ive got no idea why u dont like auto bio. if u just take it as a story then yes its shit. but if u look at the overall thing its 1 of my favorite gza lyrics. its got gr8 imagery. also i think this is a gr8 metaphor

They say I rhyme like the bank that stop
Cause M.C.'s be more shook then the dice that drop
Especially if I'm rollin', then the point is definitely proven
Cause with the GZA holdin', that keep a nigga movin'

and everything connects and hes got gr8 lines like

The high roller knock the chip off the shoulder
Strike like the perfect bowler, with catastrophic damage

i think it is a reference to 'having a chip on your shoulder' which would fit in with the song cuz it shows some rapper provoking gza to battle him and the fact gza knocks the chip off his shoulder shows that gza won. i think its also a reference to gambling. 'high roller' is a gambling term and poker chips r casino tokens. also i think 'high roller' and 'bowler' r connected cuz when a bowler throws the cricket ball his arm goes high in the air and the bowler is hitting the chip.

gza has a lotta quotable lines and intelligent stuff in that song but i cant explain it all. tbh i think it beats any k rino lyrics with ease. i definitely dont think its average. its got dope american football metaphors and everything

i thought animal planet was a very hard concept 2 pull off and i thought gza did very well. i definitely dont think its average. its a bit overrated. lots of people say its a top 5 lyrical gza song but i definitely disagree. some of the lines werent that difficult but i think its dope and definitely not average.

ive never heard of cryptic 1. i agree a lot with what u said about killah priest. i agree a lot with canibus but u see thats the reason why i dont think k rinos all that. look at forensics. lots say thats got absolutely amazing lyrics and say its 1 of k rinos best songs but it has things like

'I hang in the high planes get paid to use slang' ok sounds gr8 but what is he saying. nothing really. he says hes in the sky and he gets paid to rap with his slang. he doesnt even connect to any other lines.

'In battles my molars change into rattle snake fangs' same as the line above

'My brain is a Saturn thrown arrow' i dont even think that makes sense but maybe im just being ignorant.

true forensics has some very quotable lines and he often connects his lines but hes still got quie a few filler lines and i think thats definitely his most lyrical bragging song. but canibus does this a lot worse than k rino.

my favorite lyrics r well thought out lyrics that look very simple

[noel411]

Peace homie. Great post. Sounds like you're really passionate about hip hop, and specifically lyrics. To tell the truth I don't analyse lyrics nearly as much as you seem to, and never did. I just like to hear good, original and creative concepts executed well, solid structure, and strong language skills. For me the best thing about Gza is his command of the english language. He's one of very few rappers who actually sounds like he could write something other than hip hop lyrics well.

As far as breaking down exactly what's being said, it sounds like you're more qualified for that than I am, because it's just not something I choose to put my time into. Occasionally a certain lyric will intrigue me enough to analyse it in detail, but it's not something I do regularly.

But nice to see somebody firmly backing up their opinion instead of just talking shit or regurgitating something somebody else said. Props dude.

[TheFunkyDrummer]

It's the truth that a lot of rappers have filler lines. GZA is just one of the very few who doesn't have filler (he may have some that are not as clever as the others but still..). GZA is lightyears ahead of the rest. How can you not like Labels. He is not throwing a bunch of labels together, he connects them to eachother. The extended metaphor concept with lots of double entendres is extremely clever.

Listen to K-Rino's Candy and then listen to Fame from GZA. Sure, if you look at the lyrics without analyzing them K-Rino will be the winner cause he uses interesting words which make him sound intelligent but if you analyze you'll see that lots of what he says doesn't make sense/bragging about nothing. GZA always has multiple meanings, deep imagery, (extended) metaphors, similes that actually make lots of sense.

Autobio is one of the most lyrical songs of all time probably, K-Rino has never wrote a song like that. K-Rino has some great concepts like Valley of Decision or Duality but they're not that clever. Look at Animal Planet he's relating the animals to us humans in a way and all of the lines connect.

Let's just take this one. Shouldn't gamble with a cheetah and not expect to get beat, you silly goose you know he moves fast on his feet. It's obvious right the cheetah moves fast, the goose won't win. The other meaning is that you can't gamble with a cheetah (cheater) and not expect to get beat. The cheater will win. This one is easy to understand but it's just breaking down how GZA works. He is extremely clever and yes sure I'm biased but never has someone proved to me that there's someone stronger lyrically than GZA. J-Live, Gift of Gab and One Be Lo have less filler lines and more lines that make you think. K-Rino for a long time was one of my all time favorites but these 3 are definitely better.

@noel
I can see your point if that's how you look at tracks but technically really there's no way K-Rino comes close. He is the better version of Canibus.

[noel411]

Originally Posted by THE GENIUS

@noel
I can see your point if that's how you look at tracks but technically really there's no way K-Rino comes close. He is the better version of Canibus.

I just want to make it clear here that I never said K-Rino is a "better" lyricist than Gza. To begin with I have absolutely no interest in who is "better" than who in any situation and would never put time into arguing about it or debating it. I said right from the get go that they are completely different and there is no good reason to square them off against each other.

I think the comparison to Canibus is not unfair, on some levels. The big difference would be that K is constantly coming up with interesting and original concepts whereas Canibus pretty much never does.