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Old 10-04-2012, 08:42 AM   #61
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he can absolutely go back to those sick beats he made back in the day no problem.

he simply doesnt want to. he grew bored of that shit really quick. he didnt even enjoy himself making those classic joints. when he finally got a chance to do what he really wanted he turned into bobby digital and never looked back. all the early classic stuff was done out of necessity. him and his friends trying to get off the streets and Rza making the illest beats he could. even the W, which was an awesome return to the classic sound, was something he made because he felt he had to.

the Rza we have now is who Rza wanted to be his entire career. i dont like his music anymore, but dude is happier as an artist than he's ever been so i respect that.

so basically he fell off because he became disinterested and wanted to do something else.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:53 AM   #62
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the real story is as is

after his first million..Rza went to some equipment store to get some new samplers etc when some upcoming band spotted him and approached him about him sampling music and how they "bands" arent getting work anymore because sample producers have made their art somewhat obsolete, it got to Rza and according to him, it made him feel like he wasnt truly a credible producer so he embarked on composing his own work
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:07 PM   #63
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Bullshit^

RZA still samples. Samples all over 8 diagrams.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:44 PM   #64
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Bullshit^

RZA still samples. Samples all over 8 diagrams.
no its true radioactive man is basicly paraphrasing this http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/166...sampling.jhtml


rza is a fantastic poducer as is pete rock dj premier etc but tbh they arent good musicians. and most modern era music isnt made by good musicians and that includes beetles and other such groups.

i know people will disagree but modern music is more or less people messing around. they dont study music really in any genre today.

jazz and classical music is made up off very good musicians cuz those are made up of people who studied and understood music and used this knowledge to make gr8 pieces.

i think rza felt guilty when he realised he had no real understanding of music and so he tried to become more musical but hes gone out of his element and thats why his new stuff doesnt sound as good.

i actually do believe that he could makie an album like 36 chambers again but he chooses not to.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:48 PM   #65
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fuck bands who say that anyway. That's just bullshit, if you're music is good and you're known it's not going to hurt you. If this was the case it would have been the 90s cause most of hiphop today (mainstream) doesn't even sample it's just clap clap clap clap and some kit tunes.

Also sampling is just as beautiful as playing the instruments, it's the driver not the car. Fuck all that bullshit on sampling. Sampling is the most beautiful thing in hiphop.

RZA still samples, just not as much as he used to. I think Forever's production was more advanced than 36' cause it wasnt only samples. RZA still samples but I don't think him not sampling made him a worse producers. He fell off, don't search for excuses. It's not like he's garbage now, cause 8 Diagrams had some good shit but what do people expect 90s RZA?

If it wasn't for sampling rap would suck from the very beginning.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #66
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no its true radioactive man is basicly paraphrasing this http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/166...sampling.jhtml


rza is a fantastic poducer as is pete rock dj premier etc but tbh they arent good musicians. and most modern era music isnt made by good musicians and that includes beetles and other such groups.

i know people will disagree but modern music is more or less people messing around. they dont study music really in any genre today.

jazz and classical music is made up off very good musicians cuz those are made up of people who studied and understood music and used this knowledge to make gr8 pieces.

i think rza felt guilty when he realised he had no real understanding of music and so he tried to become more musical but hes gone out of his element and thats why his new stuff doesnt sound as good.

i actually do believe that he could makie an album like 36 chambers again but he chooses not to.
Ofcourse he can if he wants to. He did it once, it's not like he unlearned it. If he wants to he can do it, he doesn't want to do that anymore. He's moving on and who can blame him, he did all the great things. Modern music is more or less people messing around? If you mean right now, yes, but late 80s & 90s I would say no way.

All the great Jazz musicians grew up in that time and had natural talents but it's not like they were very smart. If you look at hiphop there's far more knowledge than other genre. I say that even tho jazz & soul is my shit. Hiphop used to be all about studying the older music styles. Jazz, Soul, Rock was beautiful music but artistst around that time didn't influence eachother like hiphop did when it was growing in the 90s (massive influence).
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:57 PM   #67
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Also he has the Roland MV8800 now and used to own a MV8000 (I had it, garbage compared to older SP's and MPC models). If he wants to make it sound like old production he can't use modern shit and why would he choose the harder way when he can do it way more easy with that new sampler (really it's software when you look at the possibilities).

SP12 (and 1200) had that gritty, raw sound.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:00 PM   #68
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Ofcourse he can if he wants to. He did it once, it's not like he unlearned it. If he wants to he can do it, he doesn't want to do that anymore. He's moving on and who can blame him, he did all the great things. Modern music is more or less people messing around? If you mean right now, yes, but late 80s & 90s I would say no way.

All the great Jazz musicians grew up in that time and had natural talents but it's not like they were very smart. If you look at hiphop there's far more knowledge than other genre. I say that even tho jazz & soul is my shit. Hiphop used to be all about studying the older music styles. Jazz, Soul, Rock was beautiful music but artistst around that time didn't influence eachother like hiphop did when it was growing in the 90s (massive influence).
yes im including music from 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s and 2010s as 'messing around'. cuz the people who made that music didnt make it with an understanding of music theory. they dont have an understanding of the rules. and they dont develop a trained ear.

if u read through this thread youll see what i mean.
http://www.talkclassical.com/10177-rules-music.html

jazz was million million times more knowledgeable than any of those other genres u mentioned. jazz musicians studied and learnt music theory but they broke every rule on purpose. its a very bizarre genre tbh. a lot of jazz music may seem off beat but its really just syncopation. and they invented the swung note.
i remember a jazz musician said something like 'in jazz you need to learn the rules so you'll know how tobreak them' or words to that effect.

the thing that seperats jazz from those other genres u mentioned is that jazz can b studied as an art fom in its making of music whereas the others cannot b studied cuz theyre not made in a way that can b studied.

theyre not intellectualpieces of music. yes u can learn how the producer put it ogether butit aint that complex.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:22 PM   #69
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yes im including music from 60s 70s 80s 90s 00s and 2010s as 'messing around'. cuz the people who made that music didnt make it with an understanding of music theory. they dont have an understanding of the rules. and they dont develop a trained ear.

if u read through this thread youll see what i mean.
http://www.talkclassical.com/10177-rules-music.html

jazz was million million times more knowledgeable than any of those other genres u mentioned. jazz musicians studied and learnt music theory but they broke every rule on purpose. its a very bizarre genre tbh. a lot of jazz music may seem off beat but its really just syncopation. and they invented the swung note.
i remember a jazz musician said something like 'in jazz you need to learn the rules so you'll know how tobreak them' or words to that effect.

the thing that seperats jazz from those other genres u mentioned is that jazz can b studied as an art fom in its making of music whereas the others cannot b studied cuz theyre not made in a way that can b studied.

theyre not intellectualpieces of music. yes u can learn how the producer put it ogether butit aint that complex.
If you mean by rules that hiphop is more free in what musicians can do then yes but I thought you was talking about studying your elders. For example there is this DJ Premier interview where he says that you have to know all these soul and jazz classics to be a DJ, you can be a producer, beatmaker but you're not a respected DJ when you don't know about acts like The Isley Brothers, The O'Jays, Jackson 5, Sam Cooke, Duke Ellington, Earth Wind and Fire, Marvin Gaye etc.

Seriously a lot of jazz musicians who now are called best musicians (in Jazz) and brilliant minds but they were stupid until they found the sax or the piano.

There is no rule, that's bullshit. I listened to all the music and I trained my ear for Soul & Jazz records the most outside of Hiphop. The only rule is the touch of the musician, when he becomes one with the instrument or when he masters it to its fullest potential. Miles Davis was never a extremely smart dude until he started fucking with the trumpet. It's all about your own technique and your talents. Rules in music = a load of crap.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:28 PM   #70
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Bullshit^

RZA still samples. Samples all over 8 diagrams.
Mr. Know it all..while he may still sample, around forever onwards..he had embarked on alot of self composed works , No one said he doesn't sample anymore..you should have stayed in school and learnt comprehension

rakimkoolgrap ,good looking out on adding hat link
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:30 PM   #71
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oh yea..one more thing..I WILL BEAT THE SHIT OUTTA YOU NEXT TIME You DISPUTE WHAT I SAY
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:55 AM   #72
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If you mean by rules that hiphop is more free in what musicians can do then yes but I thought you was talking about studying your elders. For example there is this DJ Premier interview where he says that you have to know all these soul and jazz classics to be a DJ, you can be a producer, beatmaker but you're not a respected DJ when you don't know about acts like The Isley Brothers, The O'Jays, Jackson 5, Sam Cooke, Duke Ellington, Earth Wind and Fire, Marvin Gaye etc.

Seriously a lot of jazz musicians who now are called best musicians (in Jazz) and brilliant minds but they were stupid until they found the sax or the piano.

There is no rule, that's bullshit. I listened to all the music and I trained my ear for Soul & Jazz records the most outside of Hiphop. The only rule is the touch of the musician, when he becomes one with the instrument or when he masters it to its fullest potential. Miles Davis was never a extremely smart dude until he started fucking with the trumpet. It's all about your own technique and your talents. Rules in music = a load of crap.
theyre not rules but more like good guidelines 2 follow. if u look at hip hop no one understands or learnt these guidelines and how different notes act together which had been built upon 4 centuries. so theyre starting from square 1. its a more primitive style so it wont be as good.

dj premier probably listens to jazz but probably doesnt understand it.

its kinda like kung fu. u should create ur own technique with its own rules but there were different skools who built up their knowledge over many years. and if u didnt listen 2 these skools in detail and tried 2 create ur own style it wont b as good.

and the jazz musicians ur talking about arent the same as im talking about.

im talking about people like this



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Old 10-09-2012, 01:24 PM   #73
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Actually I did mention Duke Ellington and Miles Davis (more detailed). I watched everything about them and listened to all of their music, they're some of my favorite Jazz musicians. Their touch was perfect, no rules, nothing, just played the instrument the way they were feeling. All those songs you posted I know and listen to on a regular basis. Guidelines and rules is all bullshit, in no music there is. Ofcourse everything is very precise in Jazz music, you can't mess up (going offbeat) cause you're screwed but that's exactly why I say if you have the touch, you mastered it.

If you look at rap you can fuck around (what I meant by it's more 'free') and make a piano off beat and it still sounds dope but sampling still can be done just as clever.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:34 PM   #74
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sorry i mustve misread you and didnt see u mention those people.

u see the thing is the guidelines are useful but u shouldnt follow them 2 the exact letter. no gr8 musician has ever done this. every musician breaks them but theyre a good guide.

ive heard many jazz musicians say more people should learn music theory and that not learning it is bad. but jazz players only learnt the rules in order to know the right way to break them. and that breaking them without knowing them is ignorance. ive heard a jazz player say words to this effect.

jazz musicians actually do technically go off beat all the time but when they do it its called syncopation cuz they do it in an artistic way that actually sounds very good.

syncopation is a big part of jazz. rakim based his flow off jazz music which is why he says 'I made it faster, you tried to master/ Syncopated styles, words flowin after'

every gr8 art form has its guidelines. just look at poetry for example. at the start it was primitive but then new metres are invented with different genres having different metres assigned to them. these would be guidelines as well as new literary techniques invented

but also note that poets didnt limit themselves to these guidelines but instead used these guidelines as a good guide.

'Ranks of verse stood in strict formation - when Cupid laughed
(it's said) and stole a foot of hexameter'-Ovid from his poem Amores 1.1

basicly what Ovid is doing is changing the normal format for love elegy which is all hexameter into his own style of alternating hexameter and pentameter. Ovid did this to show how his poems were sarcastic and not serious as pentameter was seen as less serious as hexameter.

this is a gr8 example of someone knowing the guidelines and knowing how and when 2 break them.

something like free verse isnt as highly looked upon cuz its just breaking the rules to make it easier. its a more primitive form.

hip hop right now is a primitive and far easier form cuz of its almost total lack of rules. and trust me as it advances it will gain its own guidelines. it always happens. people will look at gr8s such as rza and j dilla and see how they made beats and use their work as rough guidelines and this process will repeat until their will be well known rules. ofc the best producers will know which rules to break but the genre will improve through these rules.

a respect hip hop cuz everything has to start from somewhere but if it is completely free and has no structure as such it wont b as good in the same way as poetry.
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