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Old 05-17-2013, 05:23 AM   #151
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אָדַם to be red
אָדָם man/mankind/Adam
אָדָם first man
אָדֹם red
אֱדֹם Edom/Edomite/land of Edom
אֹדֶם red gem
אֲדַמְדַּם reddish/be reddish
אַדְמָה red earth
אֲדָמָה ground/soil/territory/earth etc
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:30 AM   #152
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דָּם blood
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:16 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
lol i dont mean some bright luminous red but a red/copper brown colour.
red and brown are different...one is melanin the other lacks it (as in "red necks")

Quote:
just go and look at any native american. why do you think they were called redskins and red indians.

because the real red man lied (being the devil) and constantly in war would see them in red war paint




Quote:
Jacob's brother Esau was called Edom (red) and Hebrews and Edomites would have been very similiar considering the Bible says they're related to eachother and they're both Semites.
esau was an albino (the color was announced and recorded in the bible because it was unusual and something new genesis 25:25), born to hebrews who were all black back then (jacobs color was not announced because it was the same as everyone else)


in other words red= not the norm...

Quote:
Even Adam is connected with the word Hebrew word "red".
adam means "of the earth" meaning dark brown...later even the quran said he was created of black mud

Adam
masc. proper name, Biblical name of the first man, from Hebrew adam "man," literally "(the one formed from the) ground" (Hebrew adamah "ground"); cf. Latin homo "man," humanus "human," humus "earth, ground, soil."


edom/red is "ah-da-wam" adam is "ah-da-ma"


Quote:
In 1 Samuel 16:12 and 1 Samuel 17:42 King David is called red.

Solomon is called red in Song of Solomon 5:10.
red in the bible is the color of the devil revelation 12:3 & 9...it is also considered unclean in the book of the laws on leprosy...figure out for yourself if those kings wouldve been anything close to red, being considered by their own laws as abominable (something extremely low)

Quote:
In Lamentations 4:7 Hebrews are called red (people often mistranslate this verse and say Hebrews are white with a red tint to their skin but this is a mistranslation because the Hebrew word for red in this verse is a very deep blood red and not just a shade or hue. Also the word often translated as "whiter" should be translated as "more dazzling").
Lamentations 4:8

Their visage is blacker than a coal

visage (n.)
c.1300, from Old French visage, from vis "face, appearance,"

explain why in 16th century russia theres a painting of the geneaology of christ with nothing but black people with afros

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...b2g8o1_500.jpg

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yes of course the Hebrews looked similiar to Egyptians lol. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with that point.
were the egyptians red ?
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:33 AM   #154
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children of esau/edom
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:48 AM   #155
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Leviticus 13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying,

2 When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests:

3 And the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean.

4 If the bright spot be white in the skin of his flesh, and in sight be not deeper than the skin, and the hair thereof be not turned white; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague seven days:


*********** 2 kings 5:27 ***********************


The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.

************************************************

5 And the priest shall look on him the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague in his sight be at a stay, and the plague spread not in the skin; then the priest shall shut him up seven days more:

6 And the priest shall look on him again the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague be somewhat dark, and the plague spread not in the skin, the priest shall pronounce him clean: it is but a scab: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

7 But if the scab spread much abroad in the skin, after that he hath been seen of the priest for his cleansing, he shall be seen of the priest again.

8 And if the priest see that, behold, the scab spreadeth in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a leprosy.

9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest;

10 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising;

11 It is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean.

12 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh;

13 Then the priest shall consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is clean.


**********************the verse above is saying that a person can be fully taken over by the leprosy and turn white!!!!! this was called a clean leper****************************

14 But when raw flesh appeareth in him, he shall be unclean.

15 And the priest shall see the raw flesh, and pronounce him to be unclean: for the raw flesh is unclean: it is a leprosy.

16 Or if the raw flesh turn again, and be changed unto white, he shall come unto the priest;

17 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the plague be turned into white; then the priest shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: he is clean.

18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

19 And in the place of the boil there be a white rising, or a bright spot, white, and somewhat reddish, and it be shewed to the priest;

20 And if, when the priest seeth it, behold, it be in sight lower than the skin, and the hair thereof be turned white; the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague of leprosy broken out of the boil.

21 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hairs therein, and if it be not lower than the skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

22 And if it spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague.

23 But if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not, it is a burning boil; and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

24 Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white;

25 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the hair in the bright spot be turned white, and it be in sight deeper than the skin; it is a leprosy broken out of the burning: wherefore the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

26 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hair in the bright spot, and it be no lower than the other skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

27 And the priest shall look upon him the seventh day: and if it be spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

28 And if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not in the skin, but it be somewhat dark; it is a rising of the burning, and the priest shall pronounce him clean: for it is an inflammation of the burning.

29 If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard;

30 Then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard.

31 And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days:

32 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the plague: and, behold, if the scall spread not, and there be in it no yellow hair, and the scall be not in sight deeper than the skin;

33 He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:

34 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the scall: and, behold, if the scall be not spread in the skin, nor be in sight deeper than the skin; then the priest shall pronounce him clean: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

35 But if the scall spread much in the skin after his cleansing;

36 Then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is unclean.

37 But if the scall be in his sight at a stay, and that there is black hair grown up therein; the scall is healed, he is clean: and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

38 If a man also or a woman have in the skin of their flesh bright spots, even white bright spots;

39 Then the priest shall look: and, behold, if the bright spots in the skin of their flesh be darkish white; it is a freckled spot that groweth in the skin; he is clean.

40 And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean.

41 And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean.

42 And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead.

43 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh;

44 He is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:45 AM   #156
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:27 AM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephrem View Post
red and brown are different...one is melanin the other lacks it (as in "red necks")


these are brownish reddish people from the middle East



Quote:
because the real red man lied (being the devil) and constantly in war would see them in red war paint
thats another theory for the origin for "redskin", but if you look at Joeseph Smith he thought of Native Americans as red and he was referring directly to their skin, not red paint.






Quote:
esau was an albino (the color was announced and recorded in the bible because it was unusual and something new genesis 25:25), born to hebrews who were all black back then (jacobs color was not announced because it was the same as everyone else)


in other words red= not the norm...
if Esau was an albino he would be called very white and not red and that would mean King David and Solomon were albinos.



Quote:
adam means "of the earth" meaning dark brown...later even the quran said he was created of black mud

Adam
masc. proper name, Biblical name of the first man, from Hebrew adam "man," literally "(the one formed from the) ground" (Hebrew adamah "ground"); cf. Latin homo "man," humanus "human," humus "earth, ground, soil."


edom/red is "ah-da-wam" adam is "ah-da-ma"
the Hebrew word for ground is also closely related to the word for red. u make the mistake of not knowing that there is red soil in the Middle East. Go to Australia or the Middle East and you'll see what I mean.





i've never read the quaran so i wouldnt know but how does the colour of mud youre created from decide someones skin colour.

if eve was created from a white rib is she white?





Quote:
red in the bible is the color of the devil revelation 12:3 & 9...it is also considered unclean in the book of the laws on leprosy...figure out for yourself if those kings wouldve been anything close to red, being considered by their own laws as abominable (something extremely low)
revelation is written in a metaphorical context so you cannot use that. i dont remember any laws of leprosy calling red skin unclean. are u sure u arent getting confused with red sores?



Quote:
Lamentations 4:8

Their visage is blacker than a coal

visage (n.)
c.1300, from Old French visage, from vis "face, appearance,"

ur not reading this in context. The Hebrew word for "blacker" in this sentence means "to grow blacker" which means they were lighter and now they've become darker. Why has this happened? Probably because they've lost blood and become thinner which makes coloured people more dark.

the people are also punished and become diseased so maybe theyre covered with so many scabs they've went darker, or they've caught a skin disease which makes their skin darker.

it's not saying the Hebrews always had black skin. It is even implying that the black skin is bad.


"Their princes were brighter than snow
and whiter than milk,
their bodies more ruddy than rubies,
their appearance like lapis lazuli.


But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."


I know thi is a slightly sloppy translation. but basicly it's saying the Jews were originally red and were dazzling (should be "more dazzling" instead of "whiter") but now theyve become diseased and their skin has gone darker coloured.

it could even be a reference oh fire raining down on them from God and they're turning black from soot.

also look at Job 30:30 it also suggests that Job's skin has darkened from diseases.

Quote:
explain why in 16th century russia theres a painting of the geneaology of christ with nothing but black people with afros

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln...b2g8o1_500.jpg

I don't know why. I thought we were talking about original Jews, not Jesus. that picture couldve been from anywhere for all I know. Maybe some Russians took it from some Africans. I have no idea. Never seen that picture before.

Quote:
were the egyptians red ?


look at their pictures



they were an orange brownish reddish colour.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:35 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kephrem View Post
Leviticus 13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying,

2 When a man shall have in the skin of his flesh a rising, a scab, or bright spot, and it be in the skin of his flesh like the plague of leprosy; then he shall be brought unto Aaron the priest, or unto one of his sons the priests:

3 And the priest shall look on the plague in the skin of the flesh: and when the hair in the plague is turned white, and the plague in sight be deeper than the skin of his flesh, it is a plague of leprosy: and the priest shall look on him, and pronounce him unclean.

4 If the bright spot be white in the skin of his flesh, and in sight be not deeper than the skin, and the hair thereof be not turned white; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague seven days:


*********** 2 kings 5:27 ***********************


The leprosy therefore of Naaman shall cleave unto thee, and unto thy seed for ever. And he went out from his presence a leper as white as snow.

************************************************

5 And the priest shall look on him the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague in his sight be at a stay, and the plague spread not in the skin; then the priest shall shut him up seven days more:

6 And the priest shall look on him again the seventh day: and, behold, if the plague be somewhat dark, and the plague spread not in the skin, the priest shall pronounce him clean: it is but a scab: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

7 But if the scab spread much abroad in the skin, after that he hath been seen of the priest for his cleansing, he shall be seen of the priest again.

8 And if the priest see that, behold, the scab spreadeth in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a leprosy.

9 When the plague of leprosy is in a man, then he shall be brought unto the priest;

10 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the rising be white in the skin, and it have turned the hair white, and there be quick raw flesh in the rising;

11 It is an old leprosy in the skin of his flesh, and the priest shall pronounce him unclean, and shall not shut him up: for he is unclean.

12 And if a leprosy break out abroad in the skin, and the leprosy cover all the skin of him that hath the plague from his head even to his foot, wheresoever the priest looketh;

13 Then the priest shall consider: and, behold, if the leprosy have covered all his flesh, he shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: it is all turned white: he is clean.


**********************the verse above is saying that a person can be fully taken over by the leprosy and turn white!!!!! this was called a clean leper****************************

14 But when raw flesh appeareth in him, he shall be unclean.

15 And the priest shall see the raw flesh, and pronounce him to be unclean: for the raw flesh is unclean: it is a leprosy.

16 Or if the raw flesh turn again, and be changed unto white, he shall come unto the priest;

17 And the priest shall see him: and, behold, if the plague be turned into white; then the priest shall pronounce him clean that hath the plague: he is clean.

18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed,

19 And in the place of the boil there be a white rising, or a bright spot, white, and somewhat reddish, and it be shewed to the priest;

20 And if, when the priest seeth it, behold, it be in sight lower than the skin, and the hair thereof be turned white; the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague of leprosy broken out of the boil.

21 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hairs therein, and if it be not lower than the skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

22 And if it spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a plague.

23 But if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not, it is a burning boil; and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

24 Or if there be any flesh, in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the quick flesh that burneth have a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white;

25 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the hair in the bright spot be turned white, and it be in sight deeper than the skin; it is a leprosy broken out of the burning: wherefore the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

26 But if the priest look on it, and, behold, there be no white hair in the bright spot, and it be no lower than the other skin, but be somewhat dark; then the priest shall shut him up seven days:

27 And the priest shall look upon him the seventh day: and if it be spread much abroad in the skin, then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is the plague of leprosy.

28 And if the bright spot stay in his place, and spread not in the skin, but it be somewhat dark; it is a rising of the burning, and the priest shall pronounce him clean: for it is an inflammation of the burning.

29 If a man or woman have a plague upon the head or the beard;

30 Then the priest shall see the plague: and, behold, if it be in sight deeper than the skin; and there be in it a yellow thin hair; then the priest shall pronounce him unclean: it is a dry scall, even a leprosy upon the head or beard.

31 And if the priest look on the plague of the scall, and, behold, it be not in sight deeper than the skin, and that there is no black hair in it; then the priest shall shut up him that hath the plague of the scall seven days:

32 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the plague: and, behold, if the scall spread not, and there be in it no yellow hair, and the scall be not in sight deeper than the skin;

33 He shall be shaven, but the scall shall he not shave; and the priest shall shut up him that hath the scall seven days more:

34 And in the seventh day the priest shall look on the scall: and, behold, if the scall be not spread in the skin, nor be in sight deeper than the skin; then the priest shall pronounce him clean: and he shall wash his clothes, and be clean.

35 But if the scall spread much in the skin after his cleansing;

36 Then the priest shall look on him: and, behold, if the scall be spread in the skin, the priest shall not seek for yellow hair; he is unclean.

37 But if the scall be in his sight at a stay, and that there is black hair grown up therein; the scall is healed, he is clean: and the priest shall pronounce him clean.

38 If a man also or a woman have in the skin of their flesh bright spots, even white bright spots;

39 Then the priest shall look: and, behold, if the bright spots in the skin of their flesh be darkish white; it is a freckled spot that groweth in the skin; he is clean.

40 And the man whose hair is fallen off his head, he is bald; yet is he clean.

41 And he that hath his hair fallen off from the part of his head toward his face, he is forehead bald: yet is he clean.

42 And if there be in the bald head, or bald forehead, a white reddish sore; it is a leprosy sprung up in his bald head, or his bald forehead.

43 Then the priest shall look upon it: and, behold, if the rising of the sore be white reddish in his bald head, or in his bald forehead, as the leprosy appeareth in the skin of the flesh;

44 He is a leprous man, he is unclean: the priest shall pronounce him utterly unclean; his plague is in his head.

45 And the leper in whom the plague is, his clothes shall be rent, and his head bare, and he shall put a covering upon his upper lip, and shall cry, Unclean, unclean.

46 All the days wherein the plague shall be in him he shall be defiled; he is unclean: he shall dwell alone; without the camp shall his habitation be.
they're probably talking about a reddish sore not red skin all over. Yeah red sores and white leprosy marks are bad no matter what colour you are but that doesnt mean people who have naturally white skin or naturally red skin are unclean.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:40 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Kephrem View Post


children of esau/edom
if esau was an albino then he wouldnt have redhair, so that's not possible. also would he not be marrying women who were of colour so how could he have white children.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:37 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post


these are brownish reddish people from the middle East

they have a degree of melanin = not red which a lack thereof





Quote:
thats another theory for the origin for "redskin", but if you look at Joeseph Smith he thought of Native Americans as red and he was referring directly to their skin, not red paint.

didn't he also think they were cursed with blackness? "In the Book of Mormon, Lamanites are described as having a "skin of blackness"...so which one is it?


Quote:
if Esau was an albino he would be called very white and not red and that would mean King David and Solomon were albinos.

what you see in albinos is the lack of melanin which gives a pinkish hue which is red...




Quote:
the Hebrew word for ground is also closely related to the word for red. u make the mistake of not knowing that there is red soil in the Middle East. Go to Australia or the Middle East and you'll see what I mean.



Sirach (Apocrypha) chapter 33:10
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was CREATED OF
EARTH.


the earh is brown not red


Quote:
i've never read the quaran so i wouldnt know but how does the colour of mud youre created from decide someones skin colour.

if eve was created from a white rib is she white?

was eve made of an actual rib?



Quote:
revelation is written in a metaphorical context so you cannot use that.

at times it sure is metaphorical....so then what does red represent there if not the actual color of the devil according to you....and is that red color good?


Quote:
i dont remember any laws of leprosy calling red skin unclean. are u sure u arent getting confused with red sores?

both the color red and white are used unfavorably when leprosy is described...






Quote:
ur not reading this in context. The Hebrew word for "blacker" in this sentence means "to grow blacker" which means they were lighter and now they've become darker. Why has this happened? Probably because they've lost blood and become thinner which makes coloured people more dark.

the people are also punished and become diseased so maybe theyre covered with so many scabs they've went darker, or they've caught a skin disease which makes their skin darker.

can brown skinned people "grow blacker"..yes or no?

really?? scabs?!

Quote:
it's not saying the Hebrews always had black skin. It is even implying that the black skin is bad.


"Their princes were brighter than snow
and whiter than milk,
their bodies more ruddy than rubies,
their appearance like lapis lazuli.
white = holines... as in having a clean slate... and rubies represent hardness..durabilty...or strength


Quote:
But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

can brown skinned people become blacker?

or do red people become blacker?


Quote:
I know thi is a slightly sloppy translation. but basicly it's saying the Jews were originally red and were dazzling (should be "more dazzling" instead of "whiter") but now theyve become diseased and their skin has gone darker coloured.

it could even be a reference oh fire raining down on them from God and they're turning black from soot.

also look at Job 30:30 it also suggests that Job's skin has darkened from diseases.

can brown skinned people become blacker? the jews were mistaken for egyptians which were african...the classic egyptians were not whiter then snow or red/european colored




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I don't know why. I thought we were talking about original Jews, not Jesus.

jesus was an unoriginal jew?


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that picture couldve been from anywhere for all I know.

its russian...and at the very least 300 years old..if not 500


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Maybe some Russians took it from some Africans. I have no idea. Never seen that picture before.

russians took an orthodox christian painthing from africans and placed it in a ancient russian cathedral as a holy relic? and lets say they did....thats not the sole one that depicts hebrews as black...so the question remains why...


Quote:


look at their pictures



they were an orange brownish reddish colour.

so now not only does red mean brown and white but also orange?
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:45 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Kephrem View Post
they have a degree of melanin = not red which a lack thereof
red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour. the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.








Quote:
didn't he also think they were cursed with blackness? "In the Book of Mormon, Lamanites are described as having a "skin of blackness"...so which one is it?
sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mor...Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black. It's weird like when French Canadians call people with a swarthy appearance "nigra" and some Africans call light skinned people "white".





Quote:
what you see in albinos is the lack of melanin which gives a pinkish hue which is red...

that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.

and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.








Quote:
Sirach (Apocrypha) chapter 33:10
And all men are from the ground, and Adam was CREATED OF
EARTH.


the earh is brown not red

Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.




Quote:
was eve made of an actual rib?
i don't believe in the Bible but the Bible says she was made from Adam's rib.






Quote:
at times it sure is metaphorical....so then what does red represent there if not the actual color of the devil according to you....and is that red color good?
red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.





Quote:
both the color red and white are used unfavorably when leprosy is described...
black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.









Quote:
can brown skinned people "grow blacker"..yes or no?

really?? scabs?!
yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.

"Can an Ethiopian change his skin or a leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil." Jeremiah 13:23



Quote:
white = holines... as in having a clean slate... and rubies represent hardness..durabilty...or strength
how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.

this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.


Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.

and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"

and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions







Quote:
can brown skinned people become blacker?

or do red people become blacker?
both can turn darker





Quote:
can brown skinned people become blacker? the jews were mistaken for egyptians which were african...the classic egyptians were not whiter then snow or red/european colored
I think I've answered these previously.







Quote:
jesus was an unoriginal jew?
there were Jews 1,000s of years before Jesus.





Quote:
its russian...and at the very least 300 years old..if not 500





russians took an orthodox christian painthing from africans and placed it in a ancient russian cathedral as a holy relic? and lets say they did....thats not the sole one that depicts hebrews as black...so the question remains why...
dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc




Quote:
so now not only does red mean brown and white but also orange?
it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:48 PM   #162
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:17 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by rakimkoolgrapwutang View Post
red isn't a measure of melanin, it's a colour.
red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red


Quote:
the Yemenites in that pictures obviously have red coloured skin. Don't look at the levels of melanin, look at the colour. It is red.

light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point



Quote:
sorry looks like I followed a false claim http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mor...Curse/Red_skin

not exactly sure what he means by a skin of blackness because native americans definitely arent black.
native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards



Quote:
that is just stretching it. albinos do have a slight pink colour but the Hebrew word for red which describes Edom is a deep blood red, it's not some shade of red, and it's definitely not pink.

so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!


Quote:
and "white" would have been a far more suitable colour to describe an albino rather than "red". It would just be unneccesarily awkard to call an albino red.

are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?






Quote:
Lol the earth is all different colours. It's not just brown. I just showed you two pictures with red earth.

rich soil is black soil



Quote:

red probably represents anger or fury in the context or maybe John just saw a red dragon in his dream and there was no real reason it was red.

you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?



Quote:
black skin is used unfavourably in Lamentations 4:8 and Job 30:30. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.
the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin




Quote:
yes brown people can grow blacker from the sun or from not eating enough. white people can grow blacker from tanning as well. Only very black people can't grow any darker.
which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not



Quote:
how come in two consecutive verses whenever the Jews are described as red and dazzingly white it's metaphorical but whenever they're described as black it's literal.

it can't just change from allegorical to literal.

again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/tacitus.html


Quote:
this hebrew word זָכַךְ can mean purer or more dazzling but this one צָחַח just means whiter or more dazzling so I don't think it can mean purer, but must mean more dazzling.


Lamentations 4:7 says "their bodies more ruddy than rubies" it doesn't say "harder than rubies" or "more durable than rubbies" or "stronger than rubies".

it says "more ruddy than rubies" so it's referring to the colour of rubies and not any other properties.
the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..


1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young

Quote:
and from reading Job 30:30 "My skin grows black and peels; my body burns with fever"
i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo



Quote:
and Lamentations 4:8 "But now they are blacker than soot;
they are not recognized in the streets.
Their skin has shriveled on their bones;
it has become as dry as a stick."

I think that they might have got black boils which can turn into very bad scabs if you itch them. it fits with the descriptions



milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"



Quote:
dude I don't even know where you got that picture. It could be a hoax for all I know. I wouldn't even know it was Jesus unless someone told me. I still don't know if it is Jesus.
Whereabouts in Russia was it found? Was your source reliable? etc

http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people


Quote:
it's hard to pinpoint an exact colour but you basicly know what I mean. They're clay coloured.

you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?

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Old 05-22-2013, 02:27 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Kephrem View Post
red skin is a lack of melanin. the melanated people of the earth are different shades of brown... european descended people are different shades of red from near albino to pink to a deep red

white people have never been described as redskinned (ruddy is a different thing).





Quote:
light brown..so lets agree to disagree on this point
copper brown/reddish





Quote:
native americans ranged from different shades of brown from light brown to dark brown which would be considered black by todays standards
Arabs Indians and Asians are brown but they're not called black.






Quote:
so what youre saying or to clarify your over stance here is that red can be white-brown-orange, etc- but not pink! - which is in fact it's most closest shade?!
no i'm saying Ancient Hebrews would have called an albino "white".

even though the Jews were off a brownish colour they would not call themselves that because they were trying to differentiate themselves from all the other people around them who would be brown so they called themselves "red" because they had a red tint and were redder than most of the others.

it's similiar to why Asians are called "yellow". they could be described as white to brown but people wanted to differeniate between them and other brown or white people so they called them "yellow" because of their yellow tint.

but there were no white people in the middle East when the Jews were there so what would be the need to call an albino "red".





Quote:
are redheds the closest looking people to albinos yes or no?
except ancient Jews wouldnt have ever seen a redhead in their life so how does that apply.









Quote:
rich soil is black soil
i'm looking skimming through Genesis and I see no mention of rich soil, however this word comes up a lot http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0127.html






Quote:
you do know that as a nation edom was the only one not promised future salvation and is even written to be the recipient of great future judgement resulting in complete annhilation....is it then a coincidence esau/edom and the devil/satan are both classified as red?
Thou shalt not abhor an Edomite; for he is thy brother: thou shalt not abhor an Egyptian, because thou wast a sojourner in his land.-Deutronomy 23:7

what about Doeg the Edomite? He is supposed to be a great example of a convert to Judaism.

Black is usually seen as the colour of evil and white as a colour of good or peace or purity, but trust me if you apply that to skin colour it doesn't work.

So yes it is a coincidence. The Devil used to be called the Black Man.





Quote:
the situation was unfavourable not the color of the skin
the situation brought about that colour of skin. The colour of skin was unfavourable because it was a sympton but not because black people aren't good or anything like that.






Quote:
which white people? like those milky white/red ones that are the center of your arguement? i think not
I don't think the Jews were originally white






Quote:
again, the hebrews were thought to be an african people...

Roman historian Tacitus on the jews:

"Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin"

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...y/tacitus.html
lol u cant just nitpick. i remember studying Tacitus in school. He's not celebrated for historical accuracy but for his writing skills.

that account also says the Jews could've been from Assyria or that they were the Solymi. the Solymi lived in modern day Turkey.

so no they weren't thought to be African. people are just making random origin stories for the Jews stretching from Turkey to Ethiopia and Tacitus is just recording them all down without going in depth or backing up his points.




Quote:
the word ruddy has lost its original meaning in the description of a young David, it has ancient tie-ins with being "young" evidence lending to this is goliath as a famed warrior thought it beneath him to fight david being "ruddy"...which wouldnt make sense if it meant "red skin color"... but makes better sense if it meant young & fresh -- or in other words a fresh faced youth who had no buisness facing a proven warrior....logically his color wouldnt have been mentioned at all..


1st Samuel 17:42 And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance.

Main Entry: fresh
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: energetic, healthy
Synonyms: active, alert, blooming, bouncing, bright, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, chipper, clear, dewy, fair, florid, glowing, good, hardy, invigorated, keen, like new, lively, refreshed, rehabilitated, relaxed, relieved, rested, restored, revived, rosy, ruddy, sprightly, spry, stimulated, undimmed, unfaded, unused, unwearied, unwithered, verdant, vigorous, vital, wholesome, young

can u prove these ancient tie-ins with the Hebrew word for red meaning younger.

also you seem to be listing English synonyms and then saying that they're also synonyms in the Hebrew language. It doesn't work like that.

There's a Latin word called submittere which means both to raise and to lower and that obviously doesn't work for English.

Also the reason that "ruddy" is connected with "fresh" is because when white people exercise and are generally more healthy they get more of a red glow around their face.

In the Bible red skin was a sign of beauty because they thought that it was a nice tone.

The only way I can see the connection between "red" and "young" is because younger, healthier people would have more blood in their face and more of a red glow will shine through.

also it makes a lot of sense that Goliath would hate him for his redskin. He would realise that he was a Jew or some other Semite and then hate him for it.

But why do you think "red" and "young" are connected?


Quote:
i read in job 30:30 "my skin is black on me" not that it "grows black and peels"...and even if it did become darker (close to jet black) thats not something milky white or red people can undergo
yes you can also translate it as that as well but read it in context. It's not just randomly saying that Job is a black man. That makes no sense. It's obviously connected to his wretched and deseased condition.

In the Black Death in Europe people got gangrene which caused their flesh and skin to die and turn coal black.



so yes it can happen and sounds similiar to what happened to Job in Job 30:30 and the Jews in Lamentations 4:8





Quote:
milky white/red people cannot become blacker then soot, or as i read it have visage (meaning faces) "blacker then coal"
gangrene as shown above can do this as can other deseases.




Quote:
http://ru-icons.ru/part1/part14/1_1_137-8.htm

it's 17th century... and while blacks in the americas were being raped, robbed, and murdered in the americas...as well as kidnapped from west africa there was someone painting the geneology of jesus christ and all of the noble house of david the jews / ancient christians -- saints and the prophets -- as black people
How do you know it's from the 17th century? I don't even know if it's Russian. Someone could have just stuck that on the internet and said it was Russian. It doesn't even look that Russian tome. I don't find it very convincing. It gives no information on it and the source isn't credible. Do you even know whereabouts in Rome where it was found?





Quote:
you do know the nubians and the egyptians in that image were related, right? or were they the so-called reddish/orangish relatives of the milky white/reddish folk you've been advocating for here?
hahahahaha everyone's related in some way. I said earlier that white people aren't red people. What precisely do you mean by related?
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