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Old 06-15-2013, 11:14 PM   #16
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Sosa -

Could you give some example of social/economic problems that religion cannot solve?

How could you say that (all) religions do not make sense? Have you examined every one of them to make that determination?

Why do you think certain rules are unnatural? Is it because it goes against ego?
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:37 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by diggy View Post
Sosa -

Could you give some example of social/economic problems that religion cannot solve?

How could you say that (all) religions do not make sense? Have you examined every one of them to make that determination?

Why do you think certain rules are unnatural? Is it because it goes against ego?
- drug abuse, poverty, crime, anything...

- religions in general do not make sense. theres no logic involved (logic being so important to human existence). you are told to not just believe, but worship somebody for whom theres no proof of existence. somebody has written it down. by that logic frankenstein's monster or count dracula could exist but with the notable difference that they couldn't be mistaken for early government propoganda.

- certain rules are unnatural, don't eat pork? circumcision? marriage or monogamy as the norm, pretty much everything except don't kill or steal which is common sense if you are a human being living in a world with other human beings.

i don't completely disregard religion, the people who wrote these texts were scholars and they did have some relevant things to say. for me this amounts to a few passages in the qu'ran and the bible.

black muslim religions were a natural reaction to the environment they were fostered in. I don't know if theres anything more to say about them.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:21 AM   #18
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Interesting. Drug abuse, poverty and crime exist cuz this system we live in is unjust. Religion could be used to solve this if the system was based on it, but it is not.

Absence of proof of existence does not mean proof of absence. God is metaphysical. Why would you be looking for physical proof?

Frankenstein and count Dracula are from the imagination of man, scripture is not.

Pork is high in saturated fat and cholesterol and heart disease is related to that. No thanks. Circumcision is not endorsed in the Quran for example; it is an old TRADITION that comes from outside sources. Marriage...you don't have to get married. There is no rule that I know that is against it.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:32 AM   #19
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Frankenstein and count Dracula are from the imagination of man, scripture is not.
Based on what?

Again, i dont think religion is impossible, just as long as im following a code of ethics and way of life i might as well make up my own way which makes sense to me.

Marriage/monogamy=same thing. Isnt thou shalt not commit adultery a commandment.

My point remains, dont kill or steal is the only thing that makes sense, and you don't need an imaginary friend to tell you that.
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:43 AM   #20
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Frankenstein and count Dracula are from the imagination of man, scripture is not.

so whose imagination did it come from ?

if people didn't believe that they would be punished by a higher power for being foul, wouldn't there be much more violence and bloodshed ?


and does this fear of them being punished by a higher power for being foul cause them to be violent with those who they feel deserve to be punished by this higher power ?


people who don't believe are looked at as worthless in the eyes of the believer/dreamer
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Old 06-16-2013, 07:39 AM   #21
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June181972, you make a lot of sense. Bill Cosby should understand that it's not easy for black men to get jobs. Instead of dissing ignorant black men, what he should do is talk to them to understand why they sell drugs and rob to get money. Black men that live in poor black neighborhoods don't have a lot of job opportunities because there aren't any good jobs in their neighborhoods. Good jobs are far away from where they live and if they don't have a car to get to these jobs, what are they gonna do? Jobs in the ghetto are owned by foreigners and foreigners aren't gonna hire blacks because they hire their own people. That's just the way it is. Foreigners don't mind making money off blacks but they won't hire them to work for them which is racist. Even if foreigners did hire blacks, black men aren't gonna take the job because they don't pay enough. Ya'll know most black men aren't gonna work for low pay. People say education and school is important and it can help you get a job but the reality is that most school classes don't help you get a job and most black men hate school.



Plus black schools are terrible and they don't have the nice things that white schools have. Black schools are in bad neighborhoods and most black men come to school just to fight and start trouble because school doesn't interest them at all. I'm not trying to make excuses for black men but this is the reality. Like Guru said on Gang Starr's Conspiracy song, the SAT isn't geared for the lower class. So why even waste time trying to pass. The educational system presumes you to fail. The next thing is the corner and after that jail. I didn't agree with what he said but after thinking about it, i see what he's talking about. I've never taken the SAT test but i'm willing to bet that the questions are hard and most blacks haven't passed it. Guru also said that whites wanna send blacks to war and they wanna ban rap. What they really wanna do is get rid of us blacks. He makes a good point. Willie D of the Geto Boys said on You Still A Nigga song, try to get a job and count how many doors slam hahahahahahahahaha. He's right because discrimination towards black men still exist when they're trying to get a job. There's more black women working than black men.
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #22
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Guru also made a good point on Conspiracy song saying everytime there's violence shown in the media, usually it's a black thing. So where are they leading you? To a world full of ignorance, hatred and prejudice. TV and the news for years have fed you this foolish notion that blacks are all criminals, violent lowlifes and even animals.
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Old 06-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #23
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Sosa makes a point I like...this is why I tell people..I delve into spirituality..not religion...two different realms...especially organized religion,it's become one of the biggest cancers of society today
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:09 PM   #24
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Plus black schools are terrible and they don't have the nice things that white schools have. Black schools are in bad neighborhoods and most black men come to school just to fight and start trouble because school doesn't interest them at all. I'm not trying to make excuses for black men but this is the reality. Like Guru said on Gang Starr's Conspiracy song, the SAT isn't geared for the lower class. So why even waste time trying to pass. The educational system presumes you to fail. The next thing is the corner and after that jail. I didn't agree with what he said but after thinking about it, i see what he's talking about. I've never taken the SAT test but i'm willing to bet that the questions are hard and most blacks haven't passed it. Guru also said that whites wanna send blacks to war and they wanna ban rap. What they really wanna do is get rid of us blacks. He makes a good point. Willie D of the Geto Boys said on You Still A Nigga song, try to get a job and count how many doors slam hahahahahahahahaha. He's right because discrimination towards black men still exist when they're trying to get a job. There's more black women working than black men.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:25 PM   #25
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Based on what?

Again, i dont think religion is impossible, just as long as im following a code of ethics and way of life i might as well make up my own way which makes sense to me.

Marriage/monogamy=same thing. Isnt thou shalt not commit adultery a commandment.
Based on revelation.

Marriage/monogamy=same thing. Ya, I'm not disputing that.

Imaginary friend? Why you say that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
so whose imagination did it come from ?
No imagination. Revelation.

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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
if people didn't believe that they would be punished by a higher power for being foul, wouldn't there be much more violence and bloodshed ?
What makes you think that people believe they would be punished? Actions speak louder than words and most people, by admission of their own words and actions, do not believe. The amount of true believers compared to unbelievers is small.


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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
and does this fear of them being punished by a higher power for being foul cause them to be violent with those who they feel deserve to be punished by this higher power ?
I don't see the connection.


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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
people who don't believe are looked at as worthless in the eyes of the believer/dreamer
Your opinion. The believer is not a dreamer. In actuality, it is the unbeliever who is deluded with this life to the point of forgetting the next.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:49 PM   #26
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No imagination. Revelation.




OK - It was revealed - by who though ?







Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post



What makes you think that people believe they would be punished?
sinners go to hell right ?







Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post



Actions speak louder than words
words move people to action






Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post

and most people, by admission of their own words and actions, do not believe. The amount of true believers compared to unbelievers is small.




a belief is a belief

a child can be told by his moms that his father is coming to visit him, and that child can believe that, but when that child grows to be 40 and his father never shows, should he still believe ?








Quote:
and does this fear of them being punished by a higher power for being foul cause them to be violent with those who they feel deserve to be punished by this higher power ?





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Originally Posted by diggy View Post
I don't see the connection.
in history people who believed that their skin gets burned off in hell for sinning has burned off the skin of those who they saw as sinners - this fear they have of being punished has caused them to hurt and mame others




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Originally Posted by diggy View Post
Your opinion. The believer is not a dreamer. In actuality, it is the unbeliever who is deluded with this life to the point of forgetting the next.
the unbeliever

so this life they live blinds them/covers their eyes and hides from them the life they live after they die right ?


sounds like a dream to me yo -
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #27
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OK - It was revealed - by who though ?
God.









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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
sinners go to hell right ?
Sinners could be forgiven.









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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
words move people to action
Words are used to communicate. Whether one wants to act on those words is another thing.












Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
a belief is a belief

a child can be told by his moms that his father is coming to visit him, and that child can believe that, but when that child grows to be 40 and his father never shows, should he still believe ?
What are you implying?

















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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
in history people who believed that their skin gets burned off in hell for sinning has burned off the skin of those who they saw as sinners - this fear they have of being punished has caused them to hurt and mame others
That seems to be a mockery of scripture then. I don't see it as them fearing punishment. If they feared punishment, they would not have done that.






Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
the unbeliever

so this life they live blinds them/covers their eyes and hides from them the life they live after they die right ?


sounds like a dream to me yo -
In order to dream, you must be asleep. If you are asleep, you are unconscious. So if this is "like a dream", then you must be unconscious (of this reality), and thus deluded.
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Old 06-16-2013, 01:34 PM   #28
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God.

it was revealed by God to who ?










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Originally Posted by diggy View Post
Sinners could be forgiven.
not if believers get to them first







Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post

Words are used to communicate. Whether one wants to act on those words is another thing.

ok












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Originally Posted by diggy View Post
What are you implying?

belief is not fact or truth

















Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
That seems to be a mockery of scripture then. I don't see it as them fearing punishment. If they feared punishment, they would not have done that.

perhaps they feared they'd be punished if they didn't do that -

God said to Stone adulterers correct ?

but God also said Thou Shalt Not kill

perhaps they were just confused








Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
In order to dream, you must be asleep. If you are asleep, you are unconscious. So if this is "like a dream", then you must be unconscious (of this reality), and thus deluded.




KURTIS BLOW - Daydreamin' Lyrics

Looking back through time in the corners of my mind
I see you standing here
Oh baby how I miss you
And how much I need to kiss you
Run my fingers through your hair
But then again,it's just my imagination
Being close to you was such a sweet sensation
But then we had to have that terrible confrontation

Daydreamin' takes me where I want to be
Daydreamin' lets me have you here with me

Oh,girl if you knew all that I've been going through
You'd have a change of heart
But come rain or shine you're foverer on my mind
Of my life you're the part
But then again,it's just my imagination
Being close to you was such a sweet sensation
Find More lyrics at www.sweetslyrics.com
But then we had to have that terrible confrontation

Daydreamin' takes me where I want to be
Daydreamin' lets me have you here with me

Daydreamin' and I'm thinkin' of you
You stole my heart and I belong to you
Daydreamin' and I'm thinkin' of you
You are the one and I will be true

D...D...D...D...Daydreamin' [x4]

You know I want you girl
You know I miss you girl
Come back,come back baby..oo-wee,be my lady
You know I miss you girl
You were my only world
Come back,come back honey
Make my day bright and sunny...yeah

Come back ...honey....
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:07 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
it was revealed by God to who ?

Where are you going with this?












Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
not if believers get to them first
Your idea of believers is strange.









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Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
belief is not fact or truth

You are right! Nowhere in scripture is "belief" said to be fact or truth.

Emuna is the word that is usually translated as faith. It's meaning is different:

The Hebrew root aman means firm, something that is supported or secure. This word is used in Isaiah 22:23 for a nail that is fastened to a "secure" place. Derived from this root is the word emun meaning a craftsman. A craftsman is one who is firm and secure in his talent. Also derived from aman is the word emunah meaning firmness, something or someone that is firm in their actions. When the Hebrew word emunah is translated as faith misconceptions of its meaning occur. Faith is usually perceived as a knowing while the Hebrew emunah is a firm action. To have faith in God is not knowing that God exists or knowing that he will act, rather it is that the one with emunah will act with firmness toward God's will.


Understand?













Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
perhaps they feared they'd be punished if they didn't do that -

God said to Stone adulterers correct ?

but God also said Thou Shalt Not kill

perhaps they were just confused
Perhaps there was a mistranslation.














Quote:
Originally Posted by LORD NOSE View Post
KURTIS BLOW - Daydreamin' Lyrics

Looking back through time in the corners of my mind
I see you standing here
Oh baby how I miss you
And how much I need to kiss you
Run my fingers through your hair
But then again,it's just my imagination
Being close to you was such a sweet sensation
But then we had to have that terrible confrontation

Daydreamin' takes me where I want to be
Daydreamin' lets me have you here with me

Oh,girl if you knew all that I've been going through
You'd have a change of heart
But come rain or shine you're foverer on my mind
Of my life you're the part
But then again,it's just my imagination
Being close to you was such a sweet sensation
Find More lyrics at www.sweetslyrics.com
But then we had to have that terrible confrontation

Daydreamin' takes me where I want to be
Daydreamin' lets me have you here with me

Daydreamin' and I'm thinkin' of you
You stole my heart and I belong to you
Daydreamin' and I'm thinkin' of you
You are the one and I will be true

D...D...D...D...Daydreamin' [x4]

You know I want you girl
You know I miss you girl
Come back,come back baby..oo-wee,be my lady
You know I miss you girl
You were my only world
Come back,come back honey
Make my day bright and sunny...yeah

Come back ...honey....

You mock what should not be mocked!
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:54 PM   #30
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Where are you going with this?

who did God reveal it to ?

or did God write the scripture














Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
Your idea of believers is strange.

the shit that believers do in the name of God is stranger












Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
You are right! Nowhere in scripture is "belief" said to be fact or truth.

Emuna is the word that is usually translated as faith. It's meaning is different:

The Hebrew root aman means firm, something that is supported or secure. This word is used in Isaiah 22:23 for a nail that is fastened to a "secure" place. Derived from this root is the word emun meaning a craftsman. A craftsman is one who is firm and secure in his talent. Also derived from aman is the word emunah meaning firmness, something or someone that is firm in their actions. When the Hebrew word emunah is translated as faith misconceptions of its meaning occur. Faith is usually perceived as a knowing while the Hebrew emunah is a firm action. To have faith in God is not knowing that God exists or knowing that he will act, rather it is that the one with emunah will act with firmness toward God's will.


Understand?

having faith in God and believing in God is the same thing to me - no need to get into translations - a firm believer - secure about what he/she believes - to the point where they take someones life over what they BELIEVE -

i tell believers, don't tell me what you believe, show me what you know -















Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
Perhaps there was a mistranslation.
and everyone thinks/ believes they got the correct translation - to the point where they are killing each other over what they think/believe they got - i see it more as a big misunderstanding

















Quote:
Originally Posted by diggy View Post
You mock what should not be mocked!

AND WHAT IS IT THAT I'M MOCKING ?
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