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Old 05-16-2006, 12:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iove
yeah but it takes looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.
true

time is a mindfuck
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iove
why arenīt you direct with your words? come on, doesnt sound as if you started this thread because you want ppl seriously discussing it.

do you know the stanford experiment? very interesting...

http://www.prisonexp.org/
how much more direct can i be?

this system kills or imprisons anything that goes against it
this system is bad
eventually people will become immune to the threat of being imprisoned or killed

what is indirect about this?

nowhere did i say prison is a good place
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denaturat
issues of racism aside, I think you politicise prisons too much. what do you mean by people who are a threat to the system? revolutionaries? do you think people who commit crimes are revolutionaries? (at least that's what I see you implying) are bikers, gang bangers, mobster, dealers, pimps, etc. in your opinion "fighting" the system in the same was that activists such as Trotsky, Che or Dr. Martin Luther King? --I don't think prisons are there to suppress any kind of valid political dissent. Instead, I think that in many cases they are just fundamentally poor "solutions."
i agree prisons are poor solutions

my motive behind this thread was to establish the fact that anybody who wants to see a change take place should understand that this system will try and imprison you if you try to change it


lmao @ 'people who commit crimes are revolutionaries'
where do you come up with this stuff?

i dont know how you got that from what i typed

dont you think the system would have loved to put trotsky
che
and martin
in jail?



what does it mean to 'politicise prison too much'?
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alesco
Am jus curious, Have you ever been inside?
no
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:29 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHX
i agree prisons are poor solutions

my motive behind this thread was to establish the fact that anybody who wants to see a change take place should understand that this system will try and imprison you if you try to change it


lmao @ 'people who commit crimes are revolutionaries'
where do you come up with this stuff?

i dont know how you got that from what i typed

dont you think the system would have loved to put trotsky
che
and martin
in jail?



what does it mean to 'politicise prison too much'?
I just assumed this because of what you said about prisons keeping us in line. I have heard such arguments that claimed prisoners where just revolutionaries fighting an unjust system. I thought that is what were implying as well. hence the pimps vs. che argument. lol..misunderstanding I guess.
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Old 05-16-2006, 12:33 PM   #21
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prison is worse than death

and im sayin that even the threat of prison cant stop the change thats comin
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Old 05-16-2006, 05:41 PM   #22
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did you read the stanford experiment? i never thought that alone the prison itself and the uniforms change ppl.

prison is a poor kind of punishment? do you have a better idea? there were times when ppl got killed(yeah, usa) or tormented for their crimes. ok, donīt be sarcastic, i know this is still happening but we donīt live in the middle ages.

i always thought that prison was the best solution. only god can judge ppl but we the humanst must kinda oppress rules on ourselves.

iīm still thinking about it.......my girlfriend is reading a book about punishment and prisons by foucault. very interesting. ppl really thought about prisons. how to construct them. how to teach(!) the inmates about the rules and what they did wrong.
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Old 05-16-2006, 06:04 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iove
did you read the stanford experiment? i never thought that alone the prison itself and the uniforms change ppl.

prison is a poor kind of punishment? do you have a better idea? there were times when ppl got killed(yeah, usa) or tormented for their crimes. ok, donīt be sarcastic, i know this is still happening but we donīt live in the middle ages.

i always thought that prison was the best solution. only god can judge ppl but we the humanst must kinda oppress rules on ourselves.

iīm still thinking about it.......my girlfriend is reading a book about punishment and prisons by foucault. very interesting. ppl really thought about prisons. how to construct them. how to teach(!) the inmates about the rules and what they did wrong.
studies show that prisons do not work well. punishment is not the only option and not always the best option. it has a brutalising effect on the subjects. if you take a person off the street who has sold some dope, and you put him in prison with 5000 other criminals, what do you think is going to happen? he will get out of jail a better criminal. and do you think a couple of years locked in prison with those 5000 criminals will allow him to integrate back into normal society? ....answer is obvious. it's a vicious cycle. now wonder they make all kinds of revolving door analogies about prisons. If your ultimate goal is to reduce crime, this sort of method won't work.

besides, i don't believe in just locking away people who are a problem. people turn to crime for various reasons. often as a result of poverty. but not absolute poverty, but poverty in relation to their SUV driving condo living neighbours. some people have emotional problems, coming from disfunctional and violent homes. they learned about violence at an early age. others still are outright mentally ill or have a very low IQ.

and guess what? most of these people come from the poorest elements of our society. want to fight crime? fight poverty first. create equal acess to opportunity. a kid whose dad is crackhead and mom is on welfare cannot compete with a middle class private school kid with good role model professional parents for admission to univeristy. the former being aware of this, does not want to resign to a life of an underpaid assembly line worker. He sees glamour on TV, 50 cent, hot women, flashy shit....gotta get me some of that. he gets creative.

people who think prisons are the solution do want to think harder
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Old 05-16-2006, 06:49 PM   #24
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ok, thanks denaturat. true words.
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Old 05-16-2006, 06:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iove
ok, thanks denaturat. true words.
shit, sorry didn't mean to ramble on so much. peace.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:52 AM   #26
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i disagree with LHX - people will always flinch at pain, be that mental or physical. sure, if they're political prisoners, they may feel like they went into prison for a just cause, they may feel righteous, but they are still incarcerated, and that is a pain i can only imagine, but it is also a pain that i don't want. that's why i don't break the law.
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Old 05-17-2006, 09:11 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by arto
i disagree with LHX - people will always flinch at pain, be that mental or physical. sure, if they're political prisoners, they may feel like they went into prison for a just cause, they may feel righteous, but they are still incarcerated, and that is a pain i can only imagine, but it is also a pain that i don't want. that's why i don't break the law.
if you slap yourself in the face enough times
eventually your cheek will become numb to the pain


think about heroin junkies
think about ritual ceremonies walking on hot coals


its not a matter of feeling righteous
its a matter of doing what needs to be done



do anybody feel righteous when they are taking a shit?
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:36 AM   #28
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I hates the jail. Been there 8 years. It broke me down. But I survived. Found the creator, learned the basics of my quest to seek knowledge. Read alot - found freedom in books. Sadness is overwhelming in there if you are used to being around loved ones. But if you go in there with a strong frame of mind, not some hopeless lost individual, then your chances at not thinking about where you are increase. It get's tough though. The mental strain , daily stress caused by other individuals are beyond your control. Trouble does eventually find you inside. The key is how you deal with it.

Me personally- I let it be known I'm nobody to be fucked with or else pain will result from the attempt to give me pain.

A funny thing about jail too is this. On the day after when Oz or some prison movie was on TV - how the whole prison's attitude gets more tense and alot of role-players come out of the wood-works.

Kinda pathetic - but in my opinion LHX- prison is a place for dead-beats, failures in life, and exploiters of the weak. Some in there are good people - some of those good people are easily influenced to become "bad" people. Just like the goverment has propoganda - inside those walls - there is no policing of the Prison idealisms except from Convict-Cops. You feel what I'm saying LHX - there is no escaping the the policing of what you have to be like or act like in there. In the end - it's all on the individual's state of mind.

How long can one stay solid to the cause when in reality - the thought of prison causes more fear then resolve to the weak minded's state of mind.
You have alot of politics to deal with in Prison - you can't whitsle, you can't look into another convicts house without there being repercusions if you dont know the person well enough, that can get u killed.

If they get us in the camps - then we got to contend with Jail-house meantality and politics - fight that front as well as the other front of this battle. I see 3 fronts from inside jail in this battle. The battle with self, the battle with the shitstems(systems) ideals, the battle with the Jail-house politics v.s. personal morals and beliefs and the "Cause's" mission statement.
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:15 AM   #29
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peace V4D3R

would you say that outside jail is becoming more similar to inside jail?
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHX
peace V4D3R

would you say that outside jail is becoming more similar to inside jail?
Schools are now built based upon prison architecture models if you look close enough. If anything has been in revolution - it's the institution system. Never mind the technological revolution, the institution has been made to be apart of everybodies everyday life without anybody really realising it. Look at the colors in some schools - if you see baby blue or light green colors on the walls- those are colors that do something to the mind to bring your moral down. Little things like that have pshycological effects on the mind over periods of time. I see the shitstem on the streets, in people's minds. Tellling the truth (being a rat) - is unheard of nowadays with how those sets of rules have crossed over to the public.

What would you do if you saw a drug dealer taking an addict father's kid's gift certificates for Xmas shopping in exchange for drugs?

85% here would not say a word about it - 15% would be rats - 5% would put it on the dealer as to what he did was wrong and teach him the better ways.

Depends where you live though- in Calgary 85 % would be the informants.

All in all - alot of people that got it all on the outside would break down and think about suicide the whole time in prison.

Those who go in prison for long periods such as myself - have a hard time letting go of what was instilled in the mind - men of no allegiance basically - stuck in the battle of morals and different worlds. I found myself wanting to punch somebody that called me goofy once for fun- because goof in Canadian prisons is fighting words of the highest level.
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