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Old 10-09-2006, 11:41 PM   #1
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The other day I was talking to this guy and we started talking about Elijah Muhammad and he said, "Oh come on! That guy was so full of shit! All he did was put the mental illness of racism on niggas." And I was like, "he inspired me to live healthier and work harder," and this guy says, "You've always been that way damnit! Are you that brainwashed?" And I realized he was right. I've always tried my best. I'd probably be heading where I'm heading with or without reading Message to the Black Man. This guy continued ranting, "I see all these niggas talking about how much the Nation of Islam did for them but their still fucked up. Their either on drugs still or if their clean they're bitter and their reliant on his every word, even though the nigga's dead." I wanted to tell him he was wrong, but y'know I coudn't. As far as I can see, I couldn't find anyone else but me who had been completely set in a right direction by him. And when I look at some of these brothers, he really fucked them up. You know he had good economic and health teachings, which Marcus Garvey already did before him, but this wierd alternate history he created has fucked up black people. Now all you niggas so busy believing Moses chased whitey to the mountains or whateva that you dont know about Mansa Musa and shit like that that concretely happened. And some of you niggas talking eugenics shit when you should be building up, making money and helping better the community. I want to believe in him but I can't. So I'm asking you brothers and sister, what have you gained from Elijah Muhammad's teachings? What concrete change have they made in your lives? I'm not talking knowledge of self and stuff for you guys who actually believe the 5% and black muslim stories but actual, concrete shit he did for you mentally. Am I the only one, who was destined to reach for success anyway, to gain from him?
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Old 10-10-2006, 12:22 AM   #2
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I never followed The Nation Of Islam's way of teaching because it's wrong. They called Elijah Muhammad "The Messenger" when they all knew this was false. The Final Messenger was Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and he was in Mecca. Not Harlem.

I think what The Nation did was necessary at the time because Black people as a whole needed some kind of knowledge and unification. I won't say that The Nation messed those brothers up, because knowledge is all around and they know where to find it.
After Elijah Muhammad died, I believe it was his son Walleth Deen Muhammad that told the people, "It's time for you all to learn REAL Islam. Because this (The Nation) is baby stuff." Some went running back into the church once they found out about the work and severe punishments involved with the grave and Judgement Day.

I still say The Nation is twisted. Even though a lot of what Minister Farrakhan says is VERY true and I respect him, some of the things they teach are wrong. They outlaw shellfish and peanuts as "unhealthy". Meanwhile, the only things that are forbidden to us, as stated in The Qur'an are blood, carrion, swineflesh, and any food that's been dedicated to other than The Most High. Plus, they disrespect The Final Prophet (upon whom be peace) by saying that Elijah Muhammad is a Messenger from Allah. More innovations.

Plus, The Nation is racist. Minister Farrakhan, again, does his level best to unite oppessed PEOPLE. Not just oppressed BLACK people. Still, you can see it in them.

The only thing I learned from The Nation was to be prepared for war in times of peace and protective of your brothers and sisters. The rest is thrown away for me, because any form of Islam other than that practiced by The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and his companions is an innovation and therefore it's wrong.
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:36 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
I never followed The Nation Of Islam's way of teaching because it's wrong. They called Elijah Muhammad "The Messenger" when they all knew this was false. The Final Messenger was Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and he was in Mecca. Not Harlem.

why couldn't elijah be "The Messenger" ?

because he's not an arab from Mecca ?

does Allah only raise messengers who are arab and from Mecca ?

its said that Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah - The Seal of the PROPHETS

not the last messenger aka angel
angels didn't stop bringing messages to people after Muhammad
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:45 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Some went running back into the church once they found out about the work and severe punishments involved with the grave and Judgement Day.

what work is there to be done in following the orthodox traditional islam over the work the NOI does

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Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
I still say The Nation is twisted. Even though a lot of what Minister Farrakhan says is VERY true and I respect him, some of the things they teach are wrong. They outlaw shellfish and peanuts as "unhealthy".
lmao

how dare they say shell fish is unhealthy lol dam






Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Meanwhile, the only things that are forbidden to us, as stated in The Qur'an are blood, carrion, swineflesh, and any food that's been dedicated to other than The Most High. Plus, they disrespect The Final Prophet (upon whom be peace) by saying that Elijah Muhammad is a Messenger from Allah. More innovations.

you see this as disrespect ?

ones a prophet and ones a messenger
are you saying that ALLAH didn't work through Elijah to open the eyes of millions, clean them up, and make them productive ?

some didn't make it - this is true - but what about the all those who did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Plus, The Nation is racist. Minister Farrakhan, again, does his level best to unite oppessed PEOPLE. Not just oppressed BLACK people. Still, you can see it in them.

The only thing I learned from The Nation was to be prepared for war in times of peace and protective of your brothers and sisters. The rest is thrown away for me, because any form of Islam other than that practiced by The Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and his companions is an innovation and therefore it's wrong.

the Quran confirms the book before it

would you consider that innovation ?
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He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
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Old 10-10-2006, 01:55 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ultimate Fist View Post
The other day I was talking to this guy and we started talking about Elijah Muhammad and he said, "Oh come on! That guy was so full of shit! All he did was put the mental illness of racism on niggas." And I was like, "he inspired me to live healthier and work harder," and this guy says, "You've always been that way damnit! Are you that brainwashed?" And I realized he was right. I've always tried my best. I'd probably be heading where I'm heading with or without reading Message to the Black Man. This guy continued ranting, "I see all these niggas talking about how much the Nation of Islam did for them but their still fucked up. Their either on drugs still or if their clean they're bitter and their reliant on his every word, even though the nigga's dead." I wanted to tell him he was wrong, but y'know I coudn't. As far as I can see, I couldn't find anyone else but me who had been completely set in a right direction by him. And when I look at some of these brothers, he really fucked them up. You know he had good economic and health teachings, which Marcus Garvey already did before him, but this wierd alternate history he created has fucked up black people. Now all you niggas so busy believing Moses chased whitey to the mountains or whateva that you dont know about Mansa Musa and shit like that that concretely happened. And some of you niggas talking eugenics shit when you should be building up, making money and helping better the community. I want to believe in him but I can't. So I'm asking you brothers and sister, what have you gained from Elijah Muhammad's teachings? What concrete change have they made in your lives? I'm not talking knowledge of self and stuff for you guys who actually believe the 5% and black muslim stories but actual, concrete shit he did for you mentally. Am I the only one, who was destined to reach for success anyway, to gain from him?

children are mostly oblivious to what it takes to maintain a roof over their heads and clothes on their backs - until they get out in this world and provide shelter and clothes for their own clones.

alot of us make excuses to continue doing what we know we are not supposed to do -
we like to blame others for our lack of discipline
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He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:30 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by APSU View Post
why couldn't elijah be "The Messenger" ?

because he's not an arab from Mecca ?

does Allah only raise messengers who are arab and from Mecca ?

its said that Muhammad is the last Prophet of Allah - The Seal of the PROPHETS

not the last messenger aka angel
angels didn't stop bringing messages to people after Muhammad
Elijah Muhammad cannot be The Final Messenger because he is not of the bloodline of The Prophets. All Prophets were Messengers. Did they not bring messages of good news and warning unto the nations from which they were risen from??
Some, like Jonus, Job and Abraham (upon whom be peace), performed no miracles of their own free will, but were, rather, the subject of such miracles due to their patience and unshakeable faith in God. The Prophets and Messengers were all the most righteous beings to ever walk the Earth. It's been proven that Elijah Muhammad had loose sexual relations with a few sisters in The Nation. Even had children by them. No man, after having been visited by an Angel and been charged with a Divine mission of reforming the whole of Mankind would even think of doing such a thing. First of all, in Islam, the description of the angels is very different from the view of The West. These beings are harsh, mighty and in most cases, terrifying. In one of my books that has a few of Prophet Isa's (Jesus) (upon whom be peace) miracles recorded, a soul he speaks with describes the angels of torment that descended upon his nation....."Each angel carried two whips. A whip of iron and a whip of fire." Further in she tells of The Angel Of Death, Isa (upon whom be peace) asks, "I ask you in the name of Almighty God, describe to me The Angel Of Death." The soul replies, "He has one hand in the East and one hand in the West. His head reaches up to the higest Heavens and his legs reach down to the regions of the seventh and lowest earth. The earth itself is between his knees and all of creation is between his eyes."

Now Gabriel (upon whom be peace). Muhammad (pbuh) described Gabriel, in his true form, as having 420 pairs of wings. In the cave of Hira, when Gabriel was first sent to Muhammad (pbuh), Muhammad (pbuh) returned home shaking, sweating and his heart beating furiously. He was also very cold.

Once analyzed, Elijah Muhammad could in no way be a true Messenger. Every Messenger recieves his message from Gabriel (upon whom be peace). Or, in the case of Moses (upon whom be peace), God spoke directly to him.

He's also not a Prophet because The Archangel Gabriel did not descend and inspire Elijah Muhammad with another law from on High. Elijah Muhammad was following the Law that was given unto Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) 1400 years ago. Before he decided to change things to fit The Nation he wanted to build.

It has nothing to do with being an Arab from Mecca. Only false prophets arrived and will arrive after The Seal Of The Prophets.

As far as the linguistics go....
Angels may not have stopped bringing messages to people after Muhammad (pbuh), but Muhammad (pbuh) was the only man that Gabriel (upon whom be peace) taught the word to directly and rehearsed it with him frequently. The Messenger to mankind from among the angels is Gabriel and he visits those who call upon God for patience and protection, as a bringer of good news. Nor was anyone taught a new law or given a new book/scripture to superceed The Qur'an. Also, angels are God's servants. Not merely messengers to a group of beings who would much rather question everything than follow the rules. They do as He wills them to do. To think, or even imply, that the Angels were created to simply aid us is insane. Angels do as their told, when their told because they know what will happen if they don't. Unlike most of us who believe it's no more than a joke, until death approaches.

Elijah Muhammad studied Islam in The Middle East and came back to America to give rise to The Nation Of Islam.

Also, Prophets are not only armed with Divine Guidance and Holy Scripture, the kind of which may confirm the scriptures of old, but are unique unto The Prophets of the time and the region they're in, but also, The Prophets and Messengers have miracles to show the disbelieving people around them, that what they say is true. All Elijah Muhammad came with was a version of Islam that was different from the original and true form.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:37 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=APSU;612698}
does Allah only raise messengers who are arab and from Mecca?[/QUOTE]


I sincerely hope that was purposely stupid and not an honest question.


The Qur'an tells you that EVERY NATION RECIEVED A PROPHET. It was the will of Allah that Arabia recieved The Seal Of The Prophets. Which makes it unapproachable in question.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:43 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by APSU View Post
what work is there to be done in following the orthodox traditional islam over the work the NOI does
The NOI doesn't follow The 5 Pillars of Islam as they should be followed. Nor do they follow Sunnah the way it should be followed. You have but to know what's in these books, or if you're lazy compare them to Sunnis and see for yourself.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:52 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by APSU View Post
you see this as disrespect ?

ones a prophet and ones a messenger
are you saying that ALLAH didn't work through Elijah to open the eyes of millions, clean them up, and make them productive ?

some didn't make it - this is true - but what about the all those who did
Yes it's disrespect. Again, Muhammad (pbuh) was the seal of The Prophets. For anyone to call themselves a Prophet OR Messenger after that is a lie against Allah. He's wasn't a Messenger, he was a teacher. A Messenger brings the new Word or Law or Book as given to him from on High. Everyone you can name within the last days of revelation were Prophets AND Messengers. Some, like Job or Jonus would be conisdered Messengers beacause they recieved Divine help and spread the word thereof to their people that God was One and to obey Him alone.

Allah did work through Elijah Muhammad in the attempted reformation of a people. Everything happens by His will though. The same way Immortal Technique is teaching people with his music. That doesn't make him a messenger.
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Old 10-10-2006, 04:02 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by APSU View Post

the Quran confirms the book before it

would you consider that innovation ?
Again, I hope this wasn't intentionally stupid.

The Qur'an confirms EVERY book before it.
The Gospel, The Torah, The Law (10 Commandments), and The Psalms. It also confirms and defends The Virgin Birth in a Surah (chapter) called Maryam (Mary ((upon whom be peace)) ) Innovation doesn't enter into it. This book, among the many purposes thereof, is to show anyone dumb enough to question, that this scripture is indeed truth. That the same God who instructed Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) also instructed Jesus, Moses and David (upon whom be peace). Affirming also, that none of these men were Divine, but flesh and blood and should not be held as equals or partners to The Creator. Though for the whole of Mankind, it was also to tell The Children Of Israel that Muhammad (pbuh) was indeed the Messenger spoken of in their very own Torah. By telling re-telling the stories of The Prophets of old.

Hopeless.
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Old 10-10-2006, 11:31 AM   #11
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word, i know 1 straight kid whos a member of the nation like reppin the chains really into it you know....and a lot of those dudes are angry assholes man, i've gotten plenty of shit from those people....don't like a lot of what that shit teaches and i don't like how it's like a cult...
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Elijah Muhammad cannot be The Final Messenger because he is not of the bloodline of The Prophets.
How do you know who is of the bloodline and who is not ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
All Prophets were Messengers. Did they not bring messages of good news and warning unto the nations from which they were risen from??
Your right

All Prophets bring messages - not all messengers are prophets

what did the Prophet Muhammad prophecy to come in the future ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Some, like Jonus, Job and Abraham (upon whom be peace), performed no miracles of their own free will, but were, rather, the subject of such miracles due to their patience and unshakeable faith in God. The Prophets and Messengers were all the most righteous beings to ever walk the Earth. It's been proven that Elijah Muhammad had loose sexual relations with a few sisters in The Nation. Even had children by them. No man, after having been visited by an Angel and been charged with a Divine mission of reforming the whole of Mankind would even think of doing such a thing.
Prophets and messengers are men first
men do things
make mistakes
and even do things that most cannot understand
alot of people claim that Elijah had unlawful sexual relations with women
where did you get that information from ?
regardless, that cannot take away from or stop the progression of the Gods that he set in motion
Its also said that the Prophet Muhammad was a pedophile, and there are people promoting that accusation right now


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
First of all, in Islam, the description of the angels is very different from the view of The West. These beings are harsh, mighty and in most cases, terrifying.

Beings ?

Beings as in Human Beings ?

Maybe Super Human Beings ?


yeah the greek view of the angels got alot of people brain warped


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
In one of my books that has a few of Prophet Isa's (Jesus) (upon whom be peace) miracles recorded, a soul he speaks with describes the angels of torment that descended upon his nation....."Each angel carried two whips. A whip of iron and a whip of fire." Further in she tells of The Angel Of Death, Isa (upon whom be peace) asks, "I ask you in the name of Almighty God, describe to me The Angel Of Death." The soul replies, "He has one hand in the East and one hand in the West. His head reaches up to the higest Heavens and his legs reach down to the regions of the seventh and lowest earth. The earth itself is between his knees and all of creation is between his eyes."

what about him ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Now Gabriel (upon whom be peace). Muhammad (pbuh) described Gabriel, in his true form, as having 420 pairs of wings. In the cave of Hira, when Gabriel was first sent to Muhammad (pbuh), Muhammad (pbuh) returned home shaking, sweating and his heart beating furiously. He was also very cold.


were all these wings on his back ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Once analyzed, Elijah Muhammad could in no way be a true Messenger. Every Messenger recieves his message from Gabriel (upon whom be peace). Or, in the case of Moses (upon whom be peace), God spoke directly to him.
so this being with 420 pairs of wings, (making that 840 actual wings) has to use those wings to fly down to an appointed messenger to tell him a message from allah ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
He's also not a Prophet because The Archangel Gabriel did not descend and inspire Elijah Muhammad with another law from on High.
how do you know ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Elijah Muhammad was following the Law that was given unto Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) 1400 years ago. Before he decided to change things to fit The Nation he wanted to build.

how do you know this ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
It has nothing to do with being an Arab from Mecca. Only false prophets arrived and will arrive after The Seal Of The Prophets.

its said, in the Nation of Islam, that Muhammad is the seal of the prophets


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
As far as the linguistics go....
Angels may not have stopped bringing messages to people after Muhammad (pbuh), but Muhammad (pbuh) was the only man that Gabriel (upon whom be peace) taught the word to directly and rehearsed it with him frequently. The Messenger to mankind from among the angels is Gabriel and he visits those who call upon God for patience and protection, as a bringer of good news. Nor was anyone taught a new law or given a new book/scripture to superceed The Qur'an. Also, angels are God's servants. Not merely messengers to a group of beings who would much rather question everything than follow the rules. They do as He wills them to do. To think, or even imply, that the Angels were created to simply aid us is insane.

Malachi 4:4-6 (New International Version)



4 "Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel 5 "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes. 6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."



Just Maybe...........
































Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Angels do as their told, when their told because they know what will happen if they don't.

wow man

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Unlike most of us who believe it's no more than a joke, until death approaches.

Elijah Muhammad studied Islam in The Middle East and came back to America to give rise to The Nation Of Islam.

false

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Also, Prophets are not only armed with Divine Guidance and Holy Scripture, the kind of which may confirm the scriptures of old, but are unique unto The Prophets of the time and the region they're in, but also, The Prophets and Messengers have miracles to show the disbelieving people around them, that what they say is true. All Elijah Muhammad came with was a version of Islam that was different from the original and true form.

Elijah came to raise his people from a dead slave mentallity to fast moving, clean,and productive people - and thats what he has done

YES there is still alot of work to be done

Elijah worked

and His enemies worked to make him a failure in raising his people to a higher way of thinking, living, and being.

as he was raising them, the gubment of the us was killing them

what did muhammad prophecy to come in the future ?
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
The NOI doesn't follow The 5 Pillars of Islam as they should be followed. Nor do they follow Sunnah the way it should be followed. You have but to know what's in these books, or if you're lazy compare them to Sunnis and see for yourself.

alot of muslims in the NOI do follow the 5 pillars of Islam and do follow the sunnah and do read and write and recite their prayers in arabic
these rituals do not make them more righteous than the next



Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher
Some went running back into the church once they found out about the work and severe punishments involved with the grave and Judgement Day.


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Old 10-10-2006, 09:41 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Yes it's disrespect. Again, Muhammad (pbuh) was the seal of The Prophets. For anyone to call themselves a Prophet OR Messenger after that is a lie against Allah.

why ?


don't people today need prophets and messengers from allah ?

is not the world in worst condition now compared to how it was 1400 years ago ?

ok - muhammad brought a message

why is the Muslim world in turmoil right now
didn't a messenger of Allah himself intervene in the affairs of the people in the arabic world ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
He's wasn't a Messenger, he was a teacher. A Messenger brings the new Word or Law or Book as given to him from on High.
Elijah did bring a new law
and a new word that lifted up a people to face their oppressors


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Everyone you can name within the last days of revelation were Prophets AND Messengers. Some, like Job or Jonus would be conisdered Messengers beacause they recieved Divine help and spread the word thereof to their people that God was One and to obey Him alone.
ok man




Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Allah did work through Elijah Muhammad in the attempted (?) reformation of a people. Everything happens by His will though. The same way Immortal Technique is teaching people with his music. That doesn't make him a messenger.
does immortal technique have a message ?

you must not understand the condition black people were in before Fard and Elijah did what they did
Alot of people were/are reformed
alot are not
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"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:44 PM   #15
7EL7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shropsher_Slasher View Post
Again, I hope this wasn't intentionally stupid.

The Qur'an confirms EVERY book before it.
The Gospel, The Torah, The Law (10 Commandments), and The Psalms. It also confirms and defends The Virgin Birth in a Surah (chapter) called Maryam (Mary ((upon whom be peace)) ) Innovation doesn't enter into it. This book, among the many purposes thereof, is to show anyone dumb enough to question, that this scripture is indeed truth. That the same God who instructed Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) also instructed Jesus, Moses and David (upon whom be peace). Affirming also, that none of these men were Divine, but flesh and blood and should not be held as equals or partners to The Creator. Though for the whole of Mankind, it was also to tell The Children Of Israel that Muhammad (pbuh) was indeed the Messenger spoken of in their very own Torah. By telling re-telling the stories of The Prophets of old.

Hopeless.
losing patience ?

let me know when your ready
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"See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse."
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