What ever happened to those WMDs?

[Visionz]

...........well?

And do you make it a habit of trusting someone in your own personal lives who habitually lies to you?

[Edgar Erebus]

They aren't there and weren't ever there, but the world is a nicer and sunnier place without Saddam anyway.

Your 6000 soldiers died for a good cause. This was sarcastic, btw.

[Visionz]

Originally Posted by Slim T

They aren't there and weren't ever there, but the world is a nicer and sunnier place without Saddam anyway.

Your 6000 soldiers died for a good cause. This was sarcastic, btw.

Its nothing new my friend as I'm sure you're keenly aware of it having lived through the other side of our bombs.

Hitler died once and came back as about 60-70k people.

[Edgar Erebus]

You got it twisted, actually you were backing us with those bombs. Not that it matters anyway, out here we didn't need WMD's to fuck everything up.

Does depleted uranium count as WMD?

[Visionz]

Originally Posted by Slim T

You got it twisted, actually you were backing us with those bombs. Not that it matters anyway, out here we didn't need WMD's to fuck everything up.

Does depleted uranium count as WMD?

Word, apologize for that one and glad it wasn't you on the other end. Having experienced it one way or another given the chance to rewind time and not have the US get involved would you do it? or were we really fighting the good fight? I don't mind just fights its just I'm not sure there's been one since WW II.

&

If you're looking for a reason to invade a country and seize assets, absolutely. But in my own mind that's the potential for one but not one, still I'm doubtful that many places are relying on nuclear energy as new sources of power. Seems like Chernobyl put and end to that for the most part, could be wrong though I suppose.

[TheBoarzHeadBoy]

Iraq was as legal as any war. If you complain you're an idiot. Saddam was a douche. The goal of the invasion was to facilitate a country more in line with American interests. Saddam was put in power and removed from power by Americans. The President is the Leader of the Free World. People live and die at his command, countless thousands stand ready to kill for him. His word is international law. When countries criticize him he laughs because he sees through the veil of their jealousy. No man has held such power in the history of mankind. In his hand are the keys to render the skin of the planet to molten rubble, purging the globe in a storm of star fire. He is the God Emperor of Mankind.



I'll be honest, Laurels are a good look for him.

[Visionz]

Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy

Iraq was as legal as any war. If you complain you're an idiot. Saddam was a douche. The goal of the invasion was to facilitate a country more in line with American interests. Saddam was put in power and removed from power by Americans. The President is the Leader of the Free World. People live and die at his command, countless thousands stand ready to kill for him. His word is international law. When countries criticize him he laughs because he sees through the veil of their jealousy. No man has held such power in the history of mankind. In his hand are the keys to render the skin of the planet to molten rubble, purging the globe in a storm of star fire. He is the God Emperor of Mankind.



I'll be honest, Laurels are a good look for him.

I'd like to pay you for a blogosphere I'm putting together. The job pays $50 dollars a week and since you post here for free, why not??? right. Anyways, I'm going to send you a check for the payment but I'm going to need a favor from you. I'm currently stuck in Sidney, Australia due to complications with my passport and can't access my account. I'm going to send you a check for $400,050. Please cash this check immediately. You can keep the fifty dollars for the blog, I just need you to wire the 400 grand to offshore account I have set up in the Caiman Islands. Now don't worry, this is all legit and I'm doing it for your own best interest. As a matter of fact, you can go head and keep an extra $100. How bout that Boarzee? I care about you that much. PM me for further instructions.

[Rob Swanson]

Originally Posted by TheBoarzHeadBoy

Iraq was as legal as any war. If you complain you're an idiot. Saddam was a douche. The goal of the invasion was to facilitate a country more in line with American interests. Saddam was put in power and removed from power by Americans. The President is the Leader of the Free World. People live and die at his command, countless thousands stand ready to kill for him. His word is international law. When countries criticize him he laughs because he sees through the veil of their jealousy. No man has held such power in the history of mankind. In his hand are the keys to render the skin of the planet to molten rubble, purging the globe in a storm of star fire. He is the God Emperor of Mankind.



I'll be honest, Laurels are a good look for him.

LMAO!! He goes hard in duh paint!

[GravediggerTim]

They found yellowcake uranium when they invaded Iraq.

oh and

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/15/t...george-w-bush/

so turn off MSNBC and back the fuck off

[HANZO]

there were no WMD's, the UN inspectors all said Iraq had fully complied with UN sanctions. none of the shut down facilities didnt even have the seals destroyed by the Iraqi's. so they didnt even attempt to re-start the Nuke program.

they were going to war no matter what, the attempt at trying to link Al-Queda with Saddam was proof that Bush and Blair had one thing on their minds.

the War was illegal, 1million dead, countless left homeless and Iraq turnt into a mess. you cant justify that.

[Sense-A]

Whether or not there were Weapons of Mass Destruction is just a fucking technicality. We didn't go in alone.

There are nearly 30 countries besides the USA that contributed COMBAT TROOPS to Iraq. Are all those countries "evil" too? Are they all war mongrels?

Non-US Forces in Iraq - February 2007

The size and capabilities of the Coalition forces involved in operations in Iraq has been a subject of much debate, confusion, and at times exageration. As of August 23, 2006, there were 21 non-U.S. military forces contributing armed forces to the Coalition in Iraq. These 21 countries were: Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Moldova, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, South Korea, and the United Kingdom.



However, in the August 23, 2006 Iraq Weekly Status Report (Slide 27) the State Department listed 27 foreign countries as contributing troops to the Coalition in Iraq. The additional four countries were Japan, Portugal, Singapore and the Ukraine.



In addition, that same Weekly Status Report listed 34 countries (including the US) as maintaining personnel in Iraq (as part of the Coalition, UNAMI, or NATO). The State Department reported that Fiji was contributing troops though UNAMI and that Hungary, Iceland, Slovenia, and Turkey were assisting with the NATO training mission. However, it is unclear whether Hungary actually maintained any forces in Iraq as part of NATO or UNAMI since its government announced the complete withdrawal of troops in December 2004.
In testimony before the Senate Armed Services committee on August 3, 2006, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld described the coalition in Iraq as composed of 34 allies (plus the US).
As of June 13, 2006, MNF-I reported that 27 countries (including the US) maintained responsibility over the six major areas of Iraq. Since that time, Japan has withdrawn all of its forces from Iraq.
For the purposes of this tally, only countries that contribute troops as part of Operation Iraqi Freedom are counted. http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita..._coalition.htm

The war in Iraq has cost us around $750Billion so far (http://costofwar.com/). Yeah I can see how that is a lot of money. But Obama pissed away ~$800Billion on cash for clunkers, bailing out GM, and extending unemployment benefits so people could sit on their lazy asses for up to 99 weeks without turning in a job application. No one seems to complain about THAT waste of money now do they? It took President Obama just 22 days to SPEND more money than the total cost of the Iraqi war up to that point. How can you overlook this!?!? The Iraq tally has taken nearly 10 years to accumulate to that figure. Obama blows MORE money in a mere fraction of the amount of time for something with NO meaningful purpose. Stupid shit like cash for clunkers. What a joke.



Overall I am undecided on how just the Iraqi war was. I can't help but think we just used Saddam when it was convenient for fighting communism and then turned on him when he started fucking with Kuwait and the cheap oil they were selling us. As much research as I do, it seems like the rabbit hole always goes deeper. I'll let historians write the books on this one.

[Sense-A]

Originally Posted by HAN

the War was illegal, 1million dead, countless left homeless and Iraq turnt into a mess. you cant justify that.

Why don't you ask a returning Iraqi Freedom veteran to justify it for you? At least give them the opportunity to explain why they put their life on the line.

[Visionz]

Whether or not there were Weapons of Mass Destruction is just a fucking technicality. We didn't go in alone.

What a bullshit response. It was the purported reason for invasion, what the entire case for war was built upon. The public was lied to, other nations were lied to and plenty of innocent people died because of it.

To try and justify it after the fact is sickening. It equates to "kill him now, we'll find a reason to call if self-defense later." Murder is murder no matter how grand a scale or how much moralizing you try to rationalize it with.

They found yellowcake uranium when they invaded Iraq.

oh and

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/12/15/t...george-w-bush/

so turn off MSNBC and back the fuck off

Learn to read and learn to think for yourself. If they had found ANY uranium at all you wouldn't have needed wikileaks to uncover it for you. The entire Bush staff would have paraded around the news in every outlet possible. They would have LOVED to say "see, we fuckin told ya" but the opportunity never presented itself.

[Edgar Erebus]

Sense-A strikes again. Of those 21 countries 19 have American troops inside, you really think they would refuse an order from Washington? With your record of deposing democratically elected officials that don't suit your needs? Not to mention lying.

You like to pretend you know what you're talking about with bunchloads of citations and bullshit that make all of your posts TLDR, but then again you don't even know who did you back Sadam against. Communism, bullshit.

And I seriously hope you'll get nice and unemployed soon, to feel how it's like.

[Sense-A]

Originally Posted by Visionz

What a bullshit response. It was the purported reason for invasion, what the entire case for war was built upon. The public was lied to, other nations were lied to and plenty of innocent people died because of it.

No, it was not a bullshit response. The weapons of mass destruction was just the technical reason and basis necessary to convince the American Congress to fund the war. But if you think that is the only reason anyone wanted to go into Iraq, then you are only looking at the water's surface. What lies underneath the surface? Like I said. Just a technicality. There were various reasons we went into Iraq, weapons of mass destruction or no weapons of mass destruction, there were a lot of fuckers who wanted Saddam's head.

Originally Posted by Visionz

To try and justify it after the fact is sickening. It equates to "kill him now, we'll find a reason to call if self-defense later." Murder is murder no matter how grand a scale or how much moralizing you try to rationalize it with.

Visionz, calm down. Where in my post did I justify it? I did not justify it at all. I'm not even capable of justifying it. I talked about the cost of the war. I challenged you to ask a returning veteran to justify it for you. Did you ask one? What was his/her response?

Originally Posted by Visionz

Learn to read and learn to think for yourself. If they had found ANY uranium at all you wouldn't have needed wikileaks to uncover it for you. The entire Bush staff would have paraded around the news in every outlet possible. They would have LOVED to say "see, we fuckin told ya" but the opportunity never presented itself.

To me, the uranium, the "yellow cake" and alleged weapons of mass destruction are just one element in a grand plot. What you are directing all your attention to is the case that White House staff was making in front of congress. All your elected congressmen representing you had the opportunity and the chance to accept that evidence or reject it. Next time, pay attention to who you elect as congressman for your district. How about that?

Also, I disagree with what you said. GWB never used the liberal media. He rarely even addressed them and he did not use the liberal media to push his agenda. The liberal media was against GWB from day one. He never responded to the criticisms on a daily basis. I actually respect that. He was "presidential" and above the bullshit. He didn't have time to address and respond to every dipshit's false allegation in the liberal press. And as a taxpayer, I don't want to pay him to respond to the countless allegations from the dipshit liberal media. I'd rather him run the country. GWB wasn't a piece of shit like Obama that goes on Ellen Degeneras show or THE VIEW just to get his poll numbers up. That isn't presidential at all. And he isn't the kind of guy that says "see, I told ya." That would be immature. TARP is going to actually return a PROFIT for Americans. GWB could easily tour the USA right now and brag about how his stimulus bill will be paid off with interest and Obama's $800billion+ will never be returned to American taxpayers. But he doesn't.

The story begins at the end of the first Gulf War when inspectors found a 500 ton cache of refined yellow cake uranium at Iraq’s primary nuclear research facility in Al—Tuwaitha outside of Bagdhad. The cache was part of a huge inventory of nuclear materials discovered by UN inspectors that included low—level radioactive material of the type used for industrial and medical purposes as well as a quantity of highly enriched uranium suitable for bomb production.


This HE uranium was shipped to Russia where it was made relatively harmless by a process known as ‘isotopic dilution’ — but only after the Iraqis dragged their heels for more than 6 months following the cease fire by playing a cat and mouse game with the IAEA’s inspectors. The history of those early IAEA inspections can be found here and is an eye opening look at both the gullibility of the IAEA and the lengths to which Saddam sought to keep as much of his nuclear bomb making capability as he could.


The IAEA placed a seal on the nuclear materials in November of 1992. From then until the fall of Saddam, the agency attempted to make sure that Iraq did not use the yellow cake to reconstitute its nuclear program, something the IAEA acknowledged could be done if the Iraqis were able to rebuild its centrifuges and gain access to additional fissile material. Keeping track of the material was made extraordinarily difficult by the Iraqis who regularly impeded IAEA officials from carrying out even the most routine inspections.
Flash forward to 1999 when British intelligence found out through multiple sources that representatives of the Iraqi government had met with officials from the Niger government.


This fact is not in dispute. The mystery is in what they talked about. A memo obtained by the British — later proven to be a forgery — purported to show the Iraqis were interested in purchasing 500 tons of yellow cake uranium from Niger’s mines. Forgery or not, since Niger’s exports are extremely limited, consisting largely of uranium ore, livestock, cowpeas, and onions, one doesn’t have to be an intelligence analyst to figure out in which one of those items the Iraqis might be interested.


Both the Butler Review and the Senate Select Committee on Pre War Iraq Intelligence (SSCI) point to other efforts by Saddam to purchase uranium, most notably from the Democratic Republic of the Congo . The Butler Review states in 2002 the CIA ‘agreed that there was evidence that [uranium from Africa] had been sought.’ In the run—up to war in Iraq, the British Intelligence Services apparently believed that Iraq had been trying to obtain uranium from Africa; however, no evidence has been passed on to the IAEA apart from the forged documents.


This then was the context in which Ambassador Joe Wilson went to Niger in February of 2002. Based on multiple sources and the best judgement of the CIA, Saddam Hussein was trying purchase uranium. Since there were no working commercial nuclear reactors in all of Iraq, his interest could only be based on his desire to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program.
There was no ‘fixing’ of intelligence or ‘shaping’ intelligence to fit some preconceived agenda. Despite UN resolutions and sanctions, Saddam was looking to build the bomb. http://twana.wordpress.com/2008/12/0...anium-in-iraq/

I swear, this forum is full of nothing but conspirators and conspiracy theories and posts with no sources, bibliographies, works cited, anything. Its fun to smoke a joint and start talking conspiracies. But in the morning I have to wake up and face reality again.


First of all, if Saddam was not up to something why didn't he just cooperate with UN inspectors? Even the USA lets inspectors inside our borders to inspect our nuclear facilities. Barack Obama gave Putin a full fucking tour back in July, 2009. DId you already forget? You probably never knew in the first place because the only news you watch is the E channel. Saddam was playing a fucking cat and mouse game and world leaders worldwide knew he was up to something unless they had their own heads so far up their own asses.


But I think you guys are getting tunnel vision. Whether Saddam was going to build a nuke is neither here nor there. Let's just take a glance at some of the very many crimes that Saddam is notorious for:

1. Reprisal Against Dujail On July 8, 1982, Saddam Hussein was visiting the town of Dujail (50 miles north of Baghdad) when a group of Dawa militants shot at his motorcade. In reprisal for this assassination attempt, the entire town was punished. More than 140 fighting-age men were apprehended and never heard from again. Approximately 1,500 other townspeople, including children, were rounded up and taken to prison, where many were tortured. After a year or more in prison, many were exiled to a southern desert camp. The town itself was destroyed; houses were bulldozed and orchards were demolished.
   Though Saddam's reprisal against Dujail is considered one of his lesser-known crimes, it has been chosen as the first for which he will be tried.
2. Anfal Campaign Officially from February 23 to September 6, 1988 (but often thought to extend from March 1987 to May 1989), Saddam Hussein's regime carried out the Anfal (Arabic for "spoils") campaign against the large Kurdish population in northern Iraq. The purpose of the campaign was ostensibly to reassert Iraqi control over the area; however, the real goal was to permanently eliminate the Kurdish problem.
   The campaign consisted of eight stages of assault, where up to 200,000 Iraqi troops attacked the area, rounded up civilians, and razed villages. Once rounded up, the civilians were divided into two groups: men from ages of about 13 to 70 and women, children, and elderly men. The men were then shot and buried in mass graves. The women, children, and elderly were taken to relocation camps where conditions were deplorable. In a few areas, especially areas that put up even a little resistance, everyone was killed.
   Hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled the area, yet it is estimated that up to 182,000 were killed during the Anfal campaign. Many people consider the Anfal campaign an attempt at genocide.
3. Chemical Weapons Against Kurds As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja.
   Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons.
   Saddam Hussein's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, "Chemical Ali."
4. Invasion of Kuwait On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops invaded the country of Kuwait. The invasion was induced by oil and a large war debt that Iraq owed Kuwait. The six-week, Persian Gulf War pushed Iraqi troops out of Kuwait in 1991. As the Iraqi troops retreated, they were ordered to light oil wells on fire. Over 700 oil wells were lit, burning over one billion barrels of oil and releasing dangerous pollutants into the air. Oil pipelines were also opened, releasing 10 million barrels of oil into the Gulf and tainting many water sources. The fires and the oil spill created a huge environmental disaster.
5. Shiite Uprising & the Marsh Arabs At the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991, southern Shiites and northern Kurds rebelled against Hussein's regime. In retaliation, Iraq brutally suppressed the uprising, killing thousands of Shiites in southern Iraq.
   As supposed punishment for supporting the Shiite rebellion in 1991, Saddam Hussein's regime killed thousands of Marsh Arabs, bulldozed their villages, and systematically ruined their way of life. The Marsh Arabs had lived for thousands of years in the marshlands located in southern Iraq until Iraq built a network of canals, dykes, and dams to divert water away from the marshes. The Marsh Arabs were forced to flee the area, their way of life decimated.
   By 2002, satellite images showed only 7 to 10 percent of the marshlands left. Saddam Hussein is blamed for creating an environmental disaster.

http://history1900s.about.com/od/sad...seincrimes.htm

See, but you don't want to believe this. This doesn't fit into your paradigm of belief that America is the BIG BAD EVIL country that kills innocent people all over the world and that guys like Saddam Hussein are just oppressed revolutionary saints. Really, kid, come off of it. Do you really believe your own conspiratorial bullshit day in and day out, or only when you're high?

In my opinion, the various videos circulating the internet depicting American journalists getting their heads sawed off with machetes is reason enough to send our whole military arsenal in and level the fucking place and anyone who stands in the way. But I have balls and leadership qualities and care about the life of fellow Americans more than radical fascist fucks who aren't even up to the 20th century when it comes to giving people civil rights in their countries. I guess that is where we fundamentally disagree.

WMD or no WMD, Saddam was a shitbag and Iraq is better without him. Does that justify the entire war? No, not at all. I can't justify that for you. But I don't believe that George W Bush risked the lives of young American soldiers just because he wanted to take over an oil reservoir. Sorry.