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Old 12-19-2010, 02:54 PM   #16
Edgar Erebus
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Really cool dude. If I was the richest person in the world I'd have awesome medical care too. But I'm not.

Actually, just to make myself straight:
  • I don't live in the ghetto. And I keep myself clean.
  • Even though I'm unemployed at the moment (actively seeking employment, I got a few offers last week) I'm not on welfare and I regularly pay my obligatory health tax.
  • I've never been shot.
  • I don't do drugs.
  • I don't own a single pair of Air Force ones.
  • I don't own a single gold chain.
  • I have a three years old cellphone that I got on discount.
  • Since then I haven't changed my text message plan.
  • I don't own a cable TV.
  • I don't own a car.
  • I buy new clothes only if I rip some older stuff.
  • I don't drink beer. And I'm trying to quit smoking.
  • I have a five years old 2GB MP3 player that still works perfectly.
  • I haven't bought a blunt for almost two years now.
  • I got my mid-size stereo for my 21st birthday.
  • I don't own a wide screen.
  • I'm not black.
  • I'm not American.
And since I'm not American, I know pretty well that having obligatory health insurance, taken out of your pay BEFORE you actually get it (so you don't even see that money and you don't miss it) is a pretty decent solution. Everyone pays it, everyone gets their share of medical care without paying for it directly, everyone is happy enough. And if you want more than that, you can always pay. Every hospital has it's own "over-standard" department for rich guys who pay for that. But me, I don't need it. I'm perfectly happy with what I get for my 40 monthly... without any bill handed to me afterwards.

And stuff you said about studying at AMERICAN (USA! FUCK YEAH!) universities is more of a testament to the quality of your universities than your health care system.



Plus... My girlfriend's aunt, when he comes over here from North Carolina, always buys as much medicines and does most of her check-ups before going back - simply because here she gets it for free and with same quality.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim T View Post

Cool.

I'm white, I live in a very wealthy rural area. I also keep myself clean.
I am employed at a job my dad got for me under the table at his business. I'm not on welfare and don't pay taxes.
I've never been shot.
I do do drugs.
I don't like Air Force Ones, I rock topsiders.
I don't wear jewelery because that's effeminate. I sometimes wear a gold watch when I want to look baller.
I still don't have a smartphone (I had just gotten a new phone before they dropped but I will by Christmas.)
...

No one cares.
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:44 PM   #18
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Maybe you would understand if you read the last post on the former page, this way I wouldn't care either.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:20 AM   #19
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I disagree with you. I believe it is something that should NOT be socialized. My father lives in the USA and hasn't been to a doctor in over 25 years! Why should he have money taking out of his paycheck before he even gets it if it is for a service that he NEVER uses!!

People need to insure against their own risks. That is called being responsible. I insure my house in case a hurricane comes this way or an earthquake stretches a fault line across my property. I insure my car in case I run over a drunk in the street and he tries suing me for all I'm worth. I eat healthy and exercise to INSURE that I won't have to go to a doctor in the first place.

In a free market you give people the CHOICE and the FREEDOM to decide how to spend THEIR money. If you don't like CHOICES or FREEDOM then sure, you're government can take all the money out of your paycheck for you and spend it on what THEY think that YOU need.

Have I swayed you to my side at all to look at healthcare from this sort of viewpoint? All I'm saying is people should be responsible for preparing and INSURING against their own risk of needing medical attention. Perhaps we just need to develop more of a culture that teaches people to use insurance properly and to be more healthy in the first place and to make insurance a priority over a new pair of sneakers and rims for your car.

If EVERYONE needed healthcare everday, insurance companies wouldn't make money. The REASON they make money is because they pool a bunch of people's money who pay for health insurance but never actually use it. By making health insurance a government program, you are just allowing government to MAKE MONEY. That is a big part of our economy that gives opportunities to you and me to make money in the healthcare sector that we are willing to just hand over to government so they can make all the profit. I consider that a bad thing. Judging by your argument, you might like to hand over some other businesses to the government too, no?
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:25 AM   #20
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People should also help other people when in need. That's called solidarity. It also gives you the moral right to demand for help when you need it.

And yes, I would give some other businesses to the government, and no, I don't see anything bad for the government to have some money reserves, again for the reasons of solidarity. Quit talking like absolute free market is a flawless system. It isn't. It's actually quite self-destructive.
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:50 PM   #21
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Free market capitalism is the best economic system in the history of mankind. Is it perfect? No. But what you are alluding to in your posts is something closer to communism, in which all your work and your pay is confiscated by the government and then they decide how much bread you get and how much cheese you get and what kind of medical care you get. And you know what happens? You end up getting less of everything and everyone becomes fucking poor. Its happened time and time and time again. The free market is self destructive? America is only 234 years old and is the strongest most powerful economy in the WORLD and our currency is the number one currency in the world. Every communist regime collapses in less than half a century. Read up on history. Now go develop a skill and a product or service and go market yourself in the FREE MARKET and determine your own future and stop complaining. You know what is self destructive? The losers who blame all their personal failures on society as a whole. NOW THAT IS SELF DESTRUCTIVE!!
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim T View Post
People should also help other people when in need. That's called solidarity. It also gives you the moral right to demand for help when you need it.
And what the fuck does that have to do with government? I do LOTS of charity and most of it is through my church of through my college. I don't give government money to give to other people. I help people MYSELF!!! I give up my own time and my own skills and contribute it to people in my community. Liberals don't do a fucking thing for society except complain that government doesn't do enough for society. Trust me, government already does WAY TOO FUCKING MUCH. You like big government? I don't. A behemoth government is a government that is too powerful and a government that you cannot trust. Thanks to people like you bitching that government doesn't do enough to help the lazy uneducated fucking poor who've already brought all their own problems on themselves is a fucking cop out and sadly, that sort of attitude is becoming contagious and ruining the upcoming generation in this country.

A solid community doesn't involve government. A solid community is me going to church and sharing my faith with fellow man. Solidarity is me preparing meals for bums at the homeless shelter. Solidarity is me helping the old neighbors down the street or helping your grandma carry the groceries to her car. Solidarity isn't a fucking welfare check. That is where your confusion lies.

DEMAND FOR HELP? What the fuck? SO you think that people in need have the RIGHT to demand things from me? See how fucking far that gets you!!! How about ask me to help you. In matter of fact, how about asking me nicely instead of acting like you are ENTITLED! YES!!! People like you with the piss poor attitude that they are ENTITLED to everything that I worked hard for in my life is one of the primary fucking things that is wrong with people in this country. YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO SHIT!!! NOTHING!! YOU GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO PURSUE HAPPINESS AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS AND THAT IS IT!!! If you can't make it happen on your own, then fuck you. And fuck anyone else who thinks because they are a lazy sack of shit that can't keep a job that they have the RIGHT to just DEMAND my help. Nobody owes you shit. The government doesn't owe you shit, your fellow Americans don't owe you shit. You better learn that pretty quick.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:14 PM   #23
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Dude. I'm not American, that's first. I actually live in an ex-communist country, so I know damn well what communism is about. And I'm definitely not for re-introducing communism anywhere, but instead for using the good parts of it. Every communist idea isn't bad by default.

Second, so fucking what? You are acting like free market it is perfect and needs no improvement. But out here, in Europe, having absolute free capitalism lead straight to a communist revolution, so don't tell me it isn't self destructive. Feudalism also seemed like the best economic system in the world, and it isn't here anymore. Times change, and what is maybe best today isn't necessarily the best tomorrow. A lot of people already know that, that's why you get almost-communist guys already democratically elected in countries that tried to implement absolute free market, Bolivia for example.

Third, it's best for you to stop giving money for charity, it goes to the lazy unemployed bums anyway, so it makes no difference if you give it yourself or through government. With any charity you're helping the lazy asses to become even lazier, right? Who's confused now?

Your idea of absolute free market, absolute self-reliability and whatnot can work only in one case - if you are alone in the world. But you're not. You depend a lot on people around you. And if you think you're gonna seem cool if you act like you can achieve everything exclusively on your own, then keep dreaming. I think only way I can survive and prosper in the world we have is by having support of people around me, giving them my support in return. That's solidarity. And that's why everyone of us needs a state, or country, or anarchist community or whatever - to be supported in exchange for our support. A state is here mainly for providing a reliable way for people to make that exchange.

I paid my taxes to the government here, giving my share of support for people who need it. I think that for that I very well deserve the same support.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:36 PM   #24
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Just to make myself clear: when I got redundant, I didn't ask for welfare, because I don't need it.

EDIT:

Even a fucking better example, real life one, from my moms who works in that evilous socialized health (she's a doctor). A five years old kid that has leukemia. Unemployed parents. Six months of hospitalization, two more years of therapy sustainment, $3 mil minimally? Who's gonna pay for her treatment? You?
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Last edited by Edgar Erebus; 12-21-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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