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Old 12-28-2010, 11:32 PM   #1
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Default Why Work?

Those two words alone are enough to send a conservative bloodhound barking but the question in my own mind runs much deeper than anything to with laziness. Eventually everything is going digital and the more that happens the less and less jobs there will be. As there are less and less supplied jobs there is going to be less and less work outside of the work you produce yourself.


Service sector industries are going to be about the only mass market jobs available outside of food industries and as computers get better at understanding human nuance the quicker those jobs will be replaced as well.


What will people do when there is no work to do? How will you pay rent or buy food? Are they going to just lay all the peons face down and put one bullet in the back of their head or isn't human life something that's intrinsically valuable who's worth still exist even after the jobs are long gone ? An ever-declining job market combined with a population that grows non-stop means we should begin to think about the answers now.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:42 PM   #2
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because adam ate the apple
because god gave him a conundrum that required knowledge between right and wrong
before god had given adam the knowledge of right and wrong
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:43 PM   #3
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I'm going to sound like an asshole but I don't think it works that way.

Well we're basically at a post scarcity level of existence. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of food and clothing and housing and goods for everyone if we wanted. Communism would work. Sure.

What will the rest of us do? Will we be artists and lovers, thinkers and feelers? Will we live our lives happily and simply? Or will we find ourselves in a miserable existence and twiddle our thumbs while we think of new ways to kill ourselves...

I think we'll fuck mostly to be honest.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:57 PM   #4
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I'm going to sound like an asshole but I don't think it works that way.

Well we're basically at a post scarcity level of existence. I'm pretty sure there's plenty of food and clothing and housing and goods for everyone if we wanted. Communism would work. Sure.

What will the rest of us do? Will we be artists and lovers, thinkers and feelers? Will we live our lives happily and simply? Or will we find ourselves in a miserable existence and twiddle our thumbs while we think of new ways to kill ourselves...

I think we'll fuck mostly to be honest.
I think do whatever the fuck you wanna do and I'm sure that's mean a whole lotta sex but right now unless you're porn star its not gonna pay the bills.

I wonder when and what will cause the transition to really happen. 50% unemployment rates?
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:48 AM   #5
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It's not about work. Work is an industrial phenomenon, laziness is more natural and fundamental. It is adaptive for an organism to conserve energy when its basic needs are met. The powerful invent artificial needs for society in order to gain more power. The will to power is also fundamental.

They say when the natives saw the first metal axe brought by the europeans they got excited, not because they could cut down ten times more trees, but they could cut down the same amount of trees in the tenth of the time, and spend the rest of time relaxing.

Eventually people will 'work' for food by making or gathering food. We only think everything will be inevitably digitized, but that is a bias of the western viewpoint and a false view of the uninterrupted march of technology. The truth is that the basis for all this 'post-scarcity', nature and third world labour, is precisely becoming scarce and brutalized.

I can't believe some kids think that there will be nothing to do but surf a virtual world and order food and luxuries from replicators when global inequality is getting worse and more and more 3rd world residents are having problems finding a new place to take a shit.

The planet of the slums is coming. The super-rich are building their fortresses.

It is going to get much worse before it gets better. Many harsh lessons in store for humanity.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:52 AM   #6
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I can only truly speak from my own personal observations. I have never seen a technology that did not both progress and become more wide spread overtime. The kid that can't find a spot to shit may have a laptop in his lap to keep him distracted. Robotics have already replaced many a factor worker and would be reasonable to expect the trend to continue.


I think it could very well turn out that the ones who own all the factories wouldn't give you shit but by that time they wouldn't have to give you the illusion that they cared at all.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:42 AM   #7
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work is illusion
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clan Destine View Post
It's not about work. Work is an industrial phenomenon, laziness is more natural and fundamental. It is adaptive for an organism to conserve energy when its basic needs are met. The powerful invent artificial needs for society in order to gain more power. The will to power is also fundamental.

They say when the natives saw the first metal axe brought by the europeans they got excited, not because they could cut down ten times more trees, but they could cut down the same amount of trees in the tenth of the time, and spend the rest of time relaxing.

Eventually people will 'work' for food by making or gathering food. We only think everything will be inevitably digitized, but that is a bias of the western viewpoint and a false view of the uninterrupted march of technology. The truth is that the basis for all this 'post-scarcity', nature and third world labour, is precisely becoming scarce and brutalized.

I can't believe some kids think that there will be nothing to do but surf a virtual world and order food and luxuries from replicators when global inequality is getting worse and more and more 3rd world residents are having problems finding a new place to take a shit.

The planet of the slums is coming. The super-rich are building their fortresses.

It is going to get much worse before it gets better. Many harsh lessons in store for humanity.
great typing!!!!! work is mostly slave based, controle over controle like the pyramid of degree, the 1s on top think they are on top but they actualy stuck in duality the lower reality " Ego " negativ illusion of controle and dellusional ego has created the planet of slumz, its here ever since moses posted his ten commandz, we jus didnt listoned to the life-force! but ofcauze ying yang principle the Balance of our mother , it all happens for a reason, free choice of mother and free choice of humanity this collabs with life force, so life is nuthing but a continu lesson (like every second) to learn how to harmonize with mother and father then let go of it and re-connect with the life force, but now we have alot moses type ego with all differ commandz thinking this is the way to keep controle and this is best for all humanz well slash that with a sword! only 1 with controle is mother earth , father sun and emotion moon, the children of the grandfather/mother "life force" the tru parents of humanity consisting out energy/vibration
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:31 AM   #9
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its out of ignorance that all exist
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Visionz View Post
What will people do when there is no work to do? How will you pay rent or buy food? Are they going to just lay all the peons face down and put one bullet in the back of their head or isn't human life something that's intrinsically valuable who's worth still exist even after the jobs are long gone ? An ever-declining job market combined with a population that grows non-stop means we should begin to think about the answers now.
I think people would have to move to where the work is, even if that means leaving your country. Globalization.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:53 AM   #11
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I always figured that in the future everybody will be either working in ICT, Entertainment or Prostitution.

No matter how much computers can learn they will need humans to fix & control certain aspects. Even if we will computerize the entire world we still need to make sure those computers keep working.
However, this is not a bad thing as well, it will allow mankind to focus on what's really important: gaining more knowledge. We will not be finished learning when we don't need to to live comfortably any more.

But this will not necessarily be work, with every product being available without humans having to put into effort in it money might become less important. People would learn to achieve success which was previously only given to the wealthy. Besides the success factor there would also be more entertainment value in learning since they wouldn't have to spend so much time working.

The reason for the remainder of the other occupations is self explanatory.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:57 AM   #12
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Are we talking about short term or long term?

When we reach a certain point of production vs demand communism might be possible. We simply require the jobs that drive society to be reduced to the point that the only people needed to do it would want to do them anyway. Eventually work will no longer be a matter of need and become a matter of want.

Technology will set us free. In the old days under feudalism everyone was a farmer, a killer, or a ruler. Then as industries began to get more powerful the power went to the producers and capitalism became the norm. We're still in a capitalist society because we're still in that period. Feudalism in one form or another lasted for millenniums. Then we have Capitalism which was in its infancy in the late middle ages and renaissance but really didn't take the stage until the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution created capitalism. We had the computer revolution, but it was still existing on the time frame of industrialism. It will be another revolution that eclipses the industrial revolution that allows us to live freely.

We basically need a fully automated means of supply that can produce more than we need with sustainability. When we get that we can start talking about Anarchy or Communism or whatever and not before it.
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:37 AM   #13
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I always figured that in the future everybody will be either working in ICT, Entertainment or Prostitution.
Did you forget the health sector and food service?
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Old 12-29-2010, 12:28 PM   #14
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Did you forget the health sector and food service?
Food Service? Microwave dinners are already much better than the best I could ever make.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:38 PM   #15
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I can only truly speak from my own personal observations. I have never seen a technology that did not both progress and become more wide spread overtime.
That's exactly what I mean by western bias and the false notion of teleology. History has shown the rise and fall technology and civilizations. On the whole, the complexity of technology does increase, but not within any given societies power. Humanity's unique trait, the ability to store information outside the physical body, makes it possible for successive societies to pick up the thread, but this has nothing to do with our society as it is.

Again, how many technologies do you think have been actively quelled and silenced because they couldn't be leveraged for power or actually made things more equal? Think about the electric car, think about the possibility of free energy and what some would do stop that from happening.


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The kid that can't find a spot to shit may have a laptop in his lap to keep him . Robotics have already replaced many a factor worker and would be reasonable to expect the trend to continue.

I think it could very well turn out that the ones who own all the factories wouldn't give you shit but by that time they wouldn't have to give you the illusion that they cared at all.
As for the proliferation and beneficence of technology, THAT is something that historically requires some precedent. Technology, if nothing else, merely creates more problems than it solves and its distribution and use is always kept in check by those who have power.

You think a laptop in the hands of a kid in the slums of Lagos isn't going to be recycled for parts so he can get some food or a gun in his hands instead?? You realize that most of these people and places aren't even recognized by the state and have almost 0 formal infrastructure? But he's cool with a laptop.

The mentality of the powerful now isn't yet in terms of distraction, but simple military control, material deprivation and social dissolution. You are right in thinking that it would be smarter to keep people in an electric happy land. Part of that is already true in the west.


Quote:
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Are we talking about short term or long term?

We basically need a fully automated means of supply that can produce more than we need with sustainability. When we get that we can start talking about Anarchy or Communism or whatever and not before it.
A fully automated global means of a supply that is sustainable. Good luck with that. It is actually easy to accomplish, but we already accomplished it with 150,000 years ago with almost no technological complexity and no population.

Again, technology binds as much or as more as it liberates because its those in power who control and create it. You need to insert inequality and social conflict in the formula of technology's affects. It may very well be a harbinger of thralldom rather than liberation. There is nothing inherent about technology that means it operates towards total human freedom.

I would posit the opposite. As long we are based in a system of personal gain, and concentrations of power (inequality, the will to dominate people and resources for its own sake) there will only be a march toward a polarization of class and the tightening of the leash through technological means.

I would say it is only when we accomplish anarchy, or whatever alternate ideology, that we can start talking about a sustainable means of global supply.
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