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Old 08-03-2011, 10:47 PM   #1
Aesop Chi Odi
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Is the most destructive force on a planet a people or an idea?

Do ideas and beliefs make us evil or are we inherently evil?

Can the destructive beliefs and ideas of the cultures that propell the worlds most economically developed nations be identified and remedied so as to put an end to injustice and inequality?

If, at the end of the day, all anyone of us want is peace, then how could anyone of us be and enemy to the other?
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:57 PM   #2
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In my opinion the real culprits in the movie of our suffering are ideas that remain undisturbed as they spread terror manifesting through the mind of each member of the human family that they capture, these ideas feed off and live through the person and excrete negativity that **exit**s the body they hold captive by way of ignorant speech and injust, odd, or just plain wrong actions.

Ideas are the driving force behind a person or peoples thought and behavior so it must be incorrect ideas and beliefs that are our true enemies and true deterrents to peace and justifce for all.

Notice i didnt mention any religion or culture, Im teaching that it is the ideas and beliefs present in some major religions and some cultures that make them dangerous to us all. I am aware of the peace and love that major relgions and all cultures have brought to the wolrd. I am also aware of the death and destruction that major religions and some cultures have brought to the world. I am at the same time aware that these cultures-religions and the people that carry them are in need of correction and not condemnation or extermination. I am no advocate of war on the physical plane. This is a spiritual metaphysical ideological and philosophical dilemma. The opposition is a intangible psychological entity that requires patience study contemplation good conversation peaceful communication and cooperation. Those are the only modes of being and activity that will hold the people help the temples and heal the time.

We all have our differences but our strength is in what we have in common. Our common traits are our greatest strength. All we need is allignment.
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Old 08-04-2011, 01:13 PM   #3
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Ideas exist in the mind.

Can evil ideas exist without a thinker to think them?
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Old 08-04-2011, 04:42 PM   #4
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According to Asura. all of the evil in the world comes from the same place that the good does. the mind. good and evil comes from individual ideas of morality. there is no such thing as good and evil, hell is in your mind. You can be a moral person and still be a mass murderer, to other your will be immoral. I find Christians immoral their mass murderers and hatred of freedom.


looks like your losing the battle between man and the beats.


"We all have our differences but our strength is in what we have in common. Our common traits are our greatest strength. All we need is allignment"

so let me just tell you this their is no way that every one in the world will think alike. and this is the only way to peace. Peace it self is an impossible dream we are not created for peace. there is no peace in the universe except death. peace is the opposite of life. "Living in peace" is as much a contradiction as being "God will set you free if you obey 'him."

peace is stasis and you cant get any were staying still.

Do not let the 'man' win because if the beast dies, so does a part of you.



"Ideas are the driving force behind a person or peoples thought and behavior so it must be incorrect ideas and beliefs that are our true enemies and true deterrents to peace and justifce for all."
this is actually what the monk Asura came to; if every one was mad we would have peace. naturally Buddha disagreed, if ever one was truly enlightened we would have peace.
Its the same story and same impassibility, not ever one is going to think alike. Morality will never be the same for every one, because that would take away individuality.
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:31 AM   #5
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"People resist the noble aspects of their shadow more strenuously than they hide their dark sides .....It is more disrupting to find that you have a profound nobility of character than to find out you are a bum" - Robert Johnson noted jungian analyst

"We more easily take our worst fears and thoughts to be who we are...Our belief in a limited and impoverished identity is such a strong habit that without it we are afraid we wouldnt know how to be. If we fully acknowledged our dignity, it could lead to radical life changes. It could ask something huge of us. And yet some part of us knows that the frightened and damaged self is not who we are." - Jack Kornfield - The Wise Heart

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Old 08-06-2011, 11:28 PM   #6
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Default Peace. Third Question



Can the destructive beliefs and ideas of the cultures that propell the worlds most economically developed nations be identified and remedied so as to put an end to injustice and inequality?

I want to people of all shades and background to understand the role that culture plays in our pursuit of peace and balance.

We can elect whoever we want and argue against the political economy and the form of government or the manner in which democracy is conducted in the west, the fact is, its the culture thats the problem. The culture is what dictates how a people will share what they have and how a people will approach and interact with eachother and the people and environments around them. Culture is the psychology of a nation. Any normal or abnormal course of action that a nation commits is always supported by the ideas or philosophies that are the foundation of its culture.

One idea essential to western culture is individualism, the philosophy of individualism is a deeply ingrained concept in west, its equal to justice and freedom to us. Our love of individualism is what sanctions our child like approach to how we share resources in that were selfish with everything.

When you understand that, you can begin to see that Capitalism is not a grand conspiracy type economy that a european secret soceity forced on its people way back, its the type of economy that their culture demands, it fits them and now us perfectly because thats how they got down before there was any government establish anyway.

They were selfish hoarders with no appreciation of any communal perspective or outlook that involved doing whats best for every member of your group. Capitalism was a result of their preference for individualism and it fits and compliments individualism perfectly. Its(capitalism) selfish, violent, and doesnt give a fuck about the earth or anything it finds within it.

I laugh at the Znet Parecon folk because they dont realize that until they address the deeper issues which is america and european culture, a fair a just type of economy will never take hold because Participatory economics is not compatible with individualism or western culture. Justice and freedom for all is not compatible with western culture, that being the case, it does not exist here in america.

The secret society followers are kind of wasting there time too because even if you did destroy the freemasons another group just like it would replace them in due time because thats the kind of individual collectives that western soceities produce. If the freemasons were roaches, western culture would be the nest that it came from, and until we cure and treat the nest/culture we will always have these kind of organizations.

"When we focus on seasoned individual adult serial killers and juvenile "trench coat" mafias while ignoring questions about a culture that could continuously produce so many, so often, so masterfully, we become distracted by symptoms and lose sight of the disease. Even though the culture and individuals indigenous to it are trying to profoundly qualify this fact by trying to make the individual appear abnormally or uniquely neurotic or psychotic, it is not in the individual where the fault lies. It is the culture thats problematic" - I will not.

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Old 08-07-2011, 12:25 AM   #7
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i agree with your assessment, but i think your confused with corporatism and capitalism. true capitalism does not care at all, but it is in fact justice and equality.
my only problem really though is those two things. there is no justices and equality.

Justice is based of individual ideas of morality, what is just for some is not just for others. for instance; many Christians believed that the 'quakenamiraid' in japan was an act of justice for japans immorality and previous actions. I don't need to tell you why that ridicules, do I.

and now the big one equality. take a seat this will hurt. there is no such thing as equality. people are not borne equal, its sad but true. some people are borne less intelligent then others, some with mental and physical handicaps. others have no luck or ad luck like being borne in a different cast. but lets look out side humanity. the universe it self is not equal. some solar systems can support life others cant, some end unexpectedly and violently. the fact is if your not in just the right position in your solar system advance life cannot exist. but the one thing that proves with out a doubt that there is no equality is my wallet. my annual is at sex zeros going on seven because i was born stubborn, hard working, ruthless and lucky.
equality is a cool ideal and id love to see it work in some way or another, but it does not exists it never has, not even in commie land. the shepherds and wolves use the weak to build them selves up, and as long as their are people like Zooruka, their will always be sheep. if there are always sheep then there will always be wolves and shepherds using them. no equality in nature, the universe or society. the truth is painful.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:18 AM   #8
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"To be always answering questions and mounting defenses about things you thought were obvious keeps you from doing your work." - Toni Morrison
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:23 AM   #9
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instead of quoting how about something original? quote form idiots like Toni Morrison isn't going to cut it.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality.
OK! Einsteins an idiot to, but he has that one right.
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Old 08-07-2011, 11:49 PM   #10
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You have a poorly informed and argumentative mind and the only remedy for that is to respond with quotes excerpts and proverbs filled wit wisdom, with the use of these proverbs or quotes im leading you toward an elevated outlook and persective on the reality of life and doing it without the trouble of dealing with your pitiful malnurished/deprived intellect. I'm not going to argue you with you, because the arguments will only perpetuate your unawakened/unenlightened state.

For a person at your stage of development, argument and thinking and logic is only a source of conflict and no person place or thing should be more important to you at this point in the wheel of time than the pursuit and acceptance of wisdom and peace. Thus the proverb


"A wise man who knows proverbs reconciles difficulties." Yoruba Proverb

"The best contribution one can make to humanity is to improve onself." - ?

"The knot of wisdom a fool cannot untie; it takes a wise person." Akan Proverb

"Don't be afraid to cry. It will free your mind of sorrowful thoughts." - Hopi proverb

"Before eating, always take time to thank the food." - Arapaho proverb

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice." - Cherokee

"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." - Navajo

"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever." -Chinese Proverb

"If you dont want anyone to know, dont do it." - Chinese Proverb

"Knowledge without action is like hoarding precious metals, a vain and foolish thing. Knowledge is like wealth, intended for use; Those who violate the universal law of USE conflict with natural forces." - Kemetic Proverb


You can disgree with the quotes excerpts and proverbs if you want, theyre not going to respond either, it would be pointless though because you will agree eventually, thats how the truth works, thats balance.

You value logic more than the truth, rather argue than learn. Your intellect is standing in the way of your own development and despite what you believe, you cannot think your way over or around it. Your hearing and not seeing life, you have a incomplete understanding of reality, you dont know what your thinking/talking about.

Your Intellect can either open doors for you or it can keep you locked down and keep the truth hidden from you. If it is informed by and forms an alliance with wisdom then it becomes the opener of the way and no longer clouds your vision and with that balance and cooperation of wisdom and intellect you have the ability to guide yourself and others to our greatest mode of being.

You have to stop thinking and go meditate on the teachings of an enlightened path and then when you are a properly advised and equilibrated thinker you will be qualified to discuss liberation.


"We Choose only once. We Choose either to be warriors or to be ordinary men. A second choice does not exist. Not on this earth." - Carlos Castenada

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Old 08-08-2011, 01:25 AM   #11
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sounds like you want me to walk the Deva Path. you are aware that is not enlightenment. Buddha teaches that in the realm of the Devas, there is only good and no suffering this leads to no compassion or any other positive impulse, Impulse does not exist in the mind of a Devas, that being said no compassion = no wisdom.

i walk the road of Asura. it works for me. because peace is death it is void of motion...boring. i like change when thing are always moving.. i'm happy. my pride gives me strength to succeed to make a better life for what is important to me...my family. i live for the thing i hold close to my heart guided by those impulses i am truly happy, and because my heart is in constant chaos...i'm at "peace" with my self.


but none of that matter because the true path that all should take the most enlightened one, is the human path because it exist with all 6 paths, it is the one of logic, reason, impulse, hate love, conflict and order.this is the true path. by denying your self conflict you are, like me, are incomplete.

peace is impossible. and according to Buddha the most wisest man in the history of humanity. your definition of wisdom is lacking.

fact Buddha considered happiness one of the parallels to wisdom. because it is containment, and a false peace. the monk Asura teaches it is peace it self its an impossible dream and peace leads no ware especially wisdom. the Devas live a peaceful lives thus they are unwise.

"with peace there is no suffering, with out suffering there is no empathy, without empathy there is no compassion, with out compassion there is no wisdom."
-The Great Dane


Quote:
Originally Posted by various
"A wise man who knows proverbs reconciles difficulties." Yoruba Proverb

"The best contribution one can make to humanity is to improve onself." - ?

"The knot of wisdom a fool cannot untie; it takes a wise person." Akan Proverb

"Don't be afraid to cry. It will free your mind of sorrowful thoughts." - Hopi proverb

"Before eating, always take time to thank the food." - Arapaho proverb

"When you were born, you cried and the world rejoiced. Live your life so that when you die, the world cries and you rejoice." - Cherokee

"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep." - Navajo

"He who asks is a fool for five minutes, but he who does not ask remains a fool forever." -Chinese Proverb

"If you dont want anyone to know, dont do it." - Chinese Proverb

"Knowledge without action is like hoarding precious metals, a vain and foolish thing. Knowledge is like wealth, intended for use; Those who violate the universal law of USE conflict with natural forces." - Kemetic Proverb
i agree with all of these by the way.

except this one
"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."
"If you make big enough waves, then ever one will wake up.."
i think some one else said that..some guy with an IQ over 170..some guy dispite his age make waves in the intellectual community..it was a guy that took everything he learned from his failures and the failures of those around him..some guy with a litle bit of luck used his mind to become wealthy..ohh yeah me bitches........again.



ps. Do you even now me. i may be insane, but no one ever said i was an idiot or a fool. well that's not entirely true people who are jealous of me, just hate my madness, or just cant stand reality. they will all say that. you all are arguing about whether or not the glass is half full or empty. then i come along and say what glass. people like their clouds they don't like people that blow them away.


just take this away from me its good advice. would you rather be complete or have peace? OK that's not advice its a question. but its something to think about.


i do notice you don't ask to many questions...man you must know everything. i should really learn from you. you have all the answers. must keep you from catching a cold to.

Fools never ask questions: fools never catch a cold. one of these is false.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:28 AM   #12
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oh and on the record i'm not vary wise. I don't have the answers, I just have my views. so don't look at me for the answers.
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Old 08-08-2011, 07:38 AM   #13
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"...you must always be doing something...Boredom becomes the individuals worst nightmare. The time and quiet required to connect with ancestors and spirit become impossible because of the ever present fear of silence and stillness. Europeans feel that if something cataclysmic or phenomenal is not happening in their lives they are not living. They are driven by the need to continually make something happen. Whether that happening holds meaning or is meaningless is not of consequence." - I forget

Boredom is... a vital problem for the moralist, since half the sins of mankind are caused by the fear of it. - Bertrand Russell


Peace is not here for your entertainment and your pursuit of happiness will be perpetual and never ending until you get over your childish view of non action and not doing and start pursuing the shelter of peace. You claim that peace does not exist and is not possible and that is what Im responding to when I reply that you do not know what you are talking about and that your intellect is getting in the way of reality. Peace is possible and it does exist, im telling you from experience, im not telling you because someone else told me or this is just what i think, im telling you from experience. To contend that peace does not exist would be akin to arguing that clouds water and air do not exist, its delusional.

Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own unguarded thoughts. Develop the mind of equilibrium. You will always be getting praise and blame, but do not let either affect the poise of the mind: follow the calmness, the absence of pride. - Sutta Nipata

Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. - Buddha

It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell. - Buddha

Our inability to stand someone results from our lack of cultivation. Having a wider heart and mind is more important than having a larger house. Happiness does not come from having much, but from being attached to little. - Venerable Cheng Yen

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Old 08-08-2011, 12:37 PM   #14
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the ultimate emoticon the moe-nyan
stop with the crown already, Devas. you are not a king and no wise man wants to rule.


before you start to understand Buddha you need a quick lesson i don't think i was vary clear the first time.

there are 6 realms/paths a person exist on 3 of which are enlightened 3 are unenlightened.

your enlightened paths
Humans= living with balance of both Chaos and Order,
Asura/wolves(chaos)= passion, impulse, freedom. Asuran focus their life to a constant stat of change.
Devas/shepherds(Order)= logic, meditation, peace. the Devas live a life void of suffering and seek to spread there ideology,


your unenlightened paths
Animals= living in the present, with no desire for personal growth, or obtaining knowledge, they are A-Moral (sheep)
Preta/Gakidō= the path of addiction.
Naraka/Jigokudō= the path of hatred.

"It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell."
this is not Buddha, it Sun Tzu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by some dude with a bad hair cut
Peace is not here for your entertainment and your pursuit of happiness will be perpetual and never ending until you get over your childish view of non action and not doing and start pursuing the shelter of peace. You claim that peace does not exist and is not possible and that is what Im responding to when I reply that you do not know what you are talking about and that your intellect is getting in the way of reality. Peace is possible and it does exist, im telling you from experience, im not telling you because someone else told me or this is just what i think, im telling you from experience. To contend that peace does not exist would be akin to arguing that clouds water and air do not exist, its delusional.
that's what i like, the simple pursuit of happiness brings me happiness; I like having something to chase. Even if i obtained that happiness i wouldn't know what to do with it. id probably know longer want it. like i said to me peace is boring, i get pleasure from seeing thing in motion. That's just me. i would know call this view childish, its probably the most adult view in this forum. i always have something to work for, and i'm always working for it, I do not live for death/peace alone; and i am not about to trade my freedom for the shelter of peace. and how can you say peace exist, when the vary symbol of change, "the spiral" is in everything form the quantum to the universe. there is no change in peace once you have it it is internal. what your asking is for the atom and the galaxy to be a strait line void of motion.





everything in motion, there is no peace.

argue it however you like, but you cannot bring something in the universe unless its already their. you are the delusional one, who cannot except reality.
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Old 08-08-2011, 06:26 PM   #15
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