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Old 09-06-2011, 06:19 PM   #1
phadde96
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Default Question about Iron Flag

Remind me again why Iron Flag is supposedly a bad album. Or judging from the massive hate: why it is considered a ridiculously disgusting piece of filth.
In 2001 I thought the Wu had dissolved for good, it was almost official. Then suddenly there were snippets of the entire album somewhere, and I remember thinking that the Wu had found their gritty selves again, after the slowness and epicness of "The W" (love that LP though). I listened to Iron Flag on repeat for a few years, then I started seeing the type of reactions it got on the net. To clear things up on where I stand, I like these types of songs: Semi Automatic etc, Box in Hand remix, Hellz wind staff, Rawhide, Liquid Swords, Black Jesus, Flowers original, Dart Throwing, 97 Mentality, A Better Tomorrow and so on. All this, and I fucking love Iron Flag.
Have I misunderstood the amount of hate? If not, why all the hate?
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:02 PM   #2
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I agree that Iron Flag is a dope album! I would rate it somewhere below The W but way above 8D (which I like but dont love) Not sure about it getting alot of hate though I havent noticed that too much, but I remember when it came out it was almost out of nowhere... Whereas The W was all hyped up for months, with Iron Flag I heard "Uzi" on the radio and a few weeks later around xmas '01 this was out. "Babies"; "Iron Flag", "In the Hood" and "Yall Been Warned" were all serios heat
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:12 PM   #3
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to be honest i liked iron flag more than the w. i thought the w was kinda dry and rza was being too experimental. i found iron flag was new sounding but still gritty for that time. would of been better if they didnt cut cappadonna out. especially since his feet are on the cover lol. but yeah, i liked the album. 3rd best on my list.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:19 PM   #4
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i never thought Iron Flag as a bad album, of course not in the 36/Forever level but def. a banger. i'd give W an edge over Flag only cuz of 'Dashing'
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekunique View Post
i never thought Iron Flag as a bad album, of course not in the 36/Forever level but def. a banger. i'd give W an edge over Flag only cuz of 'Dashing'


i dunno how the w gets an edge cause of dashing. dashing isnt even a bad song. only bad song on iron flag was soul power. only songs i really listen to anymore on the w are one blood under the w, let my niggas live and do you really. but thats just my opinion.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:28 PM   #6
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plus the w had gravel pit come on now
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:35 PM   #7
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yeah "Dashing" isnt that bad )the chorus sucks imo tho; "Soul Power" is good I love the beat and U-Gods verse was ill, I think the W is a better album though only wacks tracks for me were "conditioner" and "do u really
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:47 PM   #8
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i dont know, the jingle bells melody really didnt work for me.... it was like a rza attempt at hollis in queens gone wrong. imo, of course.
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:48 PM   #9
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iron flag sucks
youll never convince me otherwise
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Old 09-06-2011, 07:52 PM   #10
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I recently got back into this LP pretty heavy just out of nowhere. What's good on it is the kind of thing Wu fans want to hear. What's bad on it is the result of a label that was about to fold making shortsighted, first week-concerned cash-grab moves.

Y'all Been Warned, Iron Flag, Babies, Radioactive (Four Assassins), Uzi, Black Jungle - all great.

Uzi might be the most fun Wu-Tang song there is.

The album wasn't as dark and gritty, but they did it well and stayed true to their sound for the most part.

The problem areas are Chrome Wheels which is unforgivably tacky. RZA described getting it on the album despite the entire group's objections as a "power move" on his part. It was a Bobby Digital track on a Wu-Tang Clan album. That chick singing has a grating voice and what she's saying is retarded (literally, come to think of it). Also it's called CHROME WHEELS. In the middle of all the jiggy ja rule icey-blinged out thug rap that flooded everything in hiphop at that time, the last you'd expect to enter that fold was the Wu-Tang Clan.

There is a TRACKMASTERS produced song on a Wu-Tang Clan album!!! What? They never needed a desperate radio-baiting track ruining their albums' cohesion before, they weren't going to get on the radio ANYWAY, so why try? The result fucks up an otherwise solid album. It's not a bad song for what it is, but it's wack for what its meant to be. They were going to sell what they were going to sell regardless of Ronald Isley and The Trackmasters. It wasn't even released as a single until way later in the release cycle. Loud was going down in flames at the time, so they were desperate, but this didn't help anyone.

The jingle bells intro to Dashing? Son.. That song is good other than that, but who thought that shit would be taken seriously by anyone?

Throwing Flava Flav in there. It turned out ok, but it was totally unnecessary. The cynical reasoning behind this move is so transparent it's insulting. ODB was in prison, they needed another rap court jester, wild hypeman type and he was a stand-in for this album. It's better than crowbarring Dirty in like they did on Conditioner, though.

Speaking of cynical, when Wu-Tang fans complained of their sound changing, a lot of times they said things like "Where are the kung-fu samples??" etc. So as if to throw a bone to them, they thought that after putting you through something like Chrome Wheels or Back In The Game, they put like 2 seconds of two guys fighting in a kung fu flick and we're supposed to be satisfied like "oh, ok. all is forgiven." naaaaa

Why get some no-name producer who is going to make a soul-sampling, wu-inspired production to make a lame track for One of THese Days? Who is that guy? Why him of all people? Was he owed a favor? This is the most puzzling thing about the whole album to me. Why is there a track from Nick "Fury" Loftin on there?? The Trackmasters shit is unforgivable, but understandable as they are a bankable name, but this guy?? Wu-Tang is Wu-Tang because of their sound. They have True Master, 4th Disciple and Mathematics if RZA's too deep in groupies and PCP to string a few loops together, so what the fuck?

"Y'all niggas ain't 'bout it 'bout it." Oh, for real? Wu-Tang is now jacking dated southern slang in the wackest hook in their history? "bout it bout it!?" I get douchechills hearing that to this day. That Glock beat is fucking tough, though.

RZA's intro? "Tie ya shoe bitch!" G.T.F.O.

Rules was always kinda corny to me too. It's too neat and bouncy and happy-go-lucky or something. it's not bad, but I don't want to listen to it.

I think that about covers it. Don't get me started on The W - I hated that shit when it came out, but shouldn't have. I think combining the two into one amazing album would have been the better move, but whatever.
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:05 PM   #11
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you want fury's cell number to ask him?
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:10 PM   #12
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Sure.

NL: "Hello?"

Me: "Is This Nick Loftin?"

NL: "Yeah. Who is this?"

Me: "I was just about to ask you the same thing."

!POW!

3points
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow Daene View Post
I recently got back into this LP pretty heavy just out of nowhere. What's good on it is the kind of thing Wu fans want to hear. What's bad on it is the result of a label that was about to fold making shortsighted, first week-concerned cash-grab moves.

Y'all Been Warned, Iron Flag, Babies, Radioactive (Four Assassins), Uzi, Black Jungle - all great.

Uzi might be the most fun Wu-Tang song there is.

The album wasn't as dark and gritty, but they did it well and stayed true to their sound for the most part.

The problem areas are Chrome Wheels which is unforgivably tacky. RZA described getting it on the album despite the entire group's objections as a "power move" on his part. It was a Bobby Digital track on a Wu-Tang Clan album. That chick singing has a grating voice and what she's saying is retarded (literally, come to think of it). Also it's called CHROME WHEELS. In the middle of all the jiggy ja rule icey-blinged out thug rap that flooded everything in hiphop at that time, the last you'd expect to enter that fold was the Wu-Tang Clan.

There is a TRACKMASTERS produced song on a Wu-Tang Clan album!!! What? They never needed a desperate radio-baiting track ruining their albums' cohesion before, they weren't going to get on the radio ANYWAY, so why try? The result fucks up an otherwise solid album. It's not a bad song for what it is, but it's wack for what its meant to be. They were going to sell what they were going to sell regardless of Ronald Isley and The Trackmasters. It wasn't even released as a single until way later in the release cycle. Loud was going down in flames at the time, so they were desperate, but this didn't help anyone.

The jingle bells intro to Dashing? Son.. That song is good other than that, but who thought that shit would be taken seriously by anyone?

Throwing Flava Flav in there. It turned out ok, but it was totally unnecessary. The cynical reasoning behind this move is so transparent it's insulting. ODB was in prison, they needed another rap court jester, wild hypeman type and he was a stand-in for this album. It's better than crowbarring Dirty in like they did on Conditioner, though.

Speaking of cynical, when Wu-Tang fans complained of their sound changing, a lot of times they said things like "Where are the kung-fu samples??" etc. So as if to throw a bone to them, they thought that after putting you through something like Chrome Wheels or Back In The Game, they put like 2 seconds of two guys fighting in a kung fu flick and we're supposed to be satisfied like "oh, ok. all is forgiven." naaaaa

Why get some no-name producer who is going to make a soul-sampling, wu-inspired production to make a lame track for One of THese Days? Who is that guy? Why him of all people? Was he owed a favor? This is the most puzzling thing about the whole album to me. Why is there a track from Nick "Fury" Loftin on there?? The Trackmasters shit is unforgivable, but understandable as they are a bankable name, but this guy?? Wu-Tang is Wu-Tang because of their sound. They have True Master, 4th Disciple and Mathematics if RZA's too deep in groupies and PCP to string a few loops together, so what the fuck?

"Y'all niggas ain't 'bout it 'bout it." Oh, for real? Wu-Tang is now jacking dated southern slang in the wackest hook in their history? "bout it bout it!?" I get douchechills hearing that to this day. That Glock beat is fucking tough, though.

RZA's intro? "Tie ya shoe bitch!" G.T.F.O.

Rules was always kinda corny to me too. It's too neat and bouncy and happy-go-lucky or something. it's not bad, but I don't want to listen to it.

I think that about covers it. Don't get me started on The W - I hated that shit when it came out, but shouldn't have. I think combining the two into one amazing album would have been the better move, but whatever.
I'll bet money that "Chrome Wheels" is a Digital Bullet leftover, still like it though; Gzas verse on Back In The Game" is dope as hell and I actually love "One of these Days" specially in the whip but I could see how someone wouldnt
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:20 PM   #14
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^ I forgot to say that. GZA's verse is great on that. That and on Dashing.

But Deck was on fire this album. His flow change-ups etc. His verse on Uzi is my favorite Deck verse, or at least definite top 5 along with Iron Flag, Watch Your Mouth, Cross My Heart & Triumph
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Old 09-06-2011, 08:26 PM   #15
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Raekwons verse on" Iron Flag" is my single favorite on the album though (Decks ill on that track 2)
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