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Old 08-08-2012, 08:39 PM   #61
LORD NOSE
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what two nations?

New International Version (©1984)
The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger."


New International Version (©1984)
but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."



New International Version (©1984)
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:50 PM   #62
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you know what i get out of that?

humans and reptilians holding hands singing kumbaya

and the funny thing about it is im serious
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Old 08-08-2012, 11:10 PM   #63
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it simply means balance and order
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:11 AM   #64
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Mohamed us lucifer too?
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Old 08-09-2012, 06:38 AM   #65
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i dont think any of the names for the characters in the bible are correct but i fail to see how this is relevant. if someone makes a movie based on a true story and accurately depicts a real life event but changes the names of the characters, does this mean the real life events didnt happen?

again, you would have to explain to me how this is relevant.

How do you know the rest of the story is true when you're not even sure if the names are correct? History is not Hollywood. What is the motive for changing the name of the man that is the very cornerstone of the christian religion?


And you would have to explain to me how the names are relevant because christianity is one who makes the claim that the name "Jesus" is Holy. What does it mean for something to be Holy? What's in a name? Are you aware that a rose by any other name would not smell as sweet? That within a name is an archetype, an idea, an image?


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i suggest you read john chapter 8 and read thoroughly. if you truly serve God you will honor his son the way God wants him to honored.

I've read it. And I honor Yashu'a by abiding in his word. That is, the word that was not Yashu'a's but the Father's who sent him. To follow the commandments of which are founded in love. The commandments which Yashu'a stated multiple times are the way to enter into life. Nothing about a blood sacrifice.


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Originally Posted by THE W View Post
if you read the torah than you know that receiving forgiveness from God required the sacrifice of a pure lamb. Jesus stood as the final sacrifice for the sins of all people, hence one of his monikers being "the lamb of God". the work of atonement of man back to the creator God was finished in jesus' sacrifice. he was the blood sacrifice for all blood sacrifices.

Is the significance of the pure lamb purely based in the physical? Does your god seriously only forgive sins once blood has been spilled to appease? How does your god claim righteousness when it doesn't itself live up to the standards of righteousness it sets forth?


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read john chapter 14

Again, I've read it.

Beautiful chapter. In fact the whole book of John is beautiful and one of the most deeply esoteric books in biblical scripture.

It speaks nothing of a sacrifical lamb or any blood sacrifice.


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again, read john chapter 8 and read it thoroughly. it contains the verse you just quoted and its not talking about a mystical experience.

Yes it is. It explains brilliantly THE mystical experience. One who has studied the mystical traditions would recognize this.

"Abide by my word...And ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

And again Yashu'a constantly reiterates that his word is not his word but the word of his Father. His instructions called commandments which when lived brings one to the Truth. This Truth has also been called "the Way" and "the Light" and "the Life". Hmmm...sounds familiar.


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ye shall know the truth..the truth of what? this question is answered in john 8. i dare you to actually read it.

Don't patronize me. I grew up on Paulism...sorry Christianity. I've read John 8, I've read John 14, I've read John and the other 3 gospels multiple times. There is nothing that Yashu'a said to justify worshiping Yashu'a as El Elyon, the Most High God. Neither is there anything said by Yashu'a to justify telling people that if they don't take Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior and believe that he died as some sort of blood sacrifice for my sins that, according to the church, are not even my fault because Adam and Eve sinned so I was born into sin, are going to hell.

Bottom line you say you worship Jesus. Both Yashu'a and Yah said that's a no no. Explain to me how you are serving the Most High when you are serving 2 masters?
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:22 AM   #66
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it simply means balance and order
again its so simple. the simple path can be the hardest to follow in this world with the powers that influence the masses.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:31 AM   #67
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I learned so much from this thread.
3y3 thank all of you for piecing me back together and showing me the light.
i was broken.
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:46 AM   #68
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@face of the golden falcon



a name is nothing more than a title, a means of identification. a rose would not stop smelling as sweet if it were named something else. the physical attributes and characteristic of someone or something are not determined by their name so i dont see where you're going here.




the fact that we have no access to the father without Jesus, which means we have no fellowship with him, is made pretty darn clear in john 14.

john 14:6-7(NIV)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

what do you take this to mean? Jesus saying point blank no one has access to the father if they dont go throw him. since we both understand that Jesus does not speak anything the father does not speak why do you think he makes this statement?

Jesus is the way, Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the life. that is the statement that Jesus, who only speaks what the father tells him, just made.

there is simply no reason for the father to have his son say something like this unless he had plans to glorify his son. God never gave such an office to any of the prophets before him including moses and also john the baptist whom jesus described as the greatest person to ever be born of a women(matthew 11:11. remember, jesus doesnt speak anything that the father doesnt speak).

but i guess john 14 isnt good enough for you when describing the blood sacrifice. so we'll go with something else.

luke 22:14-22(NIV)

When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” 17 After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you. 18 For I tell you I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.

matthew 17:21-23(NIV)

When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men. 23 They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

keeping with the theme that jesus only speaks what the father tells him why would he have jesus saying things about a new covenant in his blood? why would he speak about the son of man being killed and then raised to life.

the books of exodus and Leviticus speak about sacrificing of various animals for atonement of sins.

exodus 29:36(NIV)
Sacrifice a bull each day as a sin offering to make atonement . Purify the altar by making atonement for it, and anoint it to consecrate it.

numbers 7:87
The total number of animals for the burnt offering came to twelve young bulls, twelve rams and twelve male lambs a year old, together with their grain offering. Twelve male goats were used for the sin offering.

so we understand through the old testament scriptures that this was how sins were atoned for.

God later grew tired of these sacrifices and rituals because the hearts of men were unpure.

Isaiah 1:10-17(NIV)

Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom;
listen to the instruction of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!
11 “The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?” says the Lord.
“I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.
12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?
13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations —
I cannot bear your worthless assemblies.
14 Your New Moon feasts and your appointed festivals
I hate with all my being.
They have become a burden to me;
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands in prayer,
I hide my eyes from you;
even when you offer many prayers,
I am not listening. Your hands are full of blood!

16 Wash and make yourselves clean.
Take your evil deeds out of my sight;
stop doing wrong.
17 Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.[a]
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
plead the case of the widow.



but God still sought out a relationship with his people. so he sent his son Jesus to be the final blood sacrifice.

john 3:16. i dont think i need to quote this as you probably know it by heart.

Jesus' sacrifice made it possible for all people to come to God. the jew and the gentile.





your statement:
Quote:
How does your god claim righteousness when it doesn't itself live up to the standards of righteousness it sets forth?
can you expand on what you're trying to say here?




again i ask...the truth about WHAT? that jesus and the father are one?

john 8:23-24(niv)
But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

yeah, leads to the truth. i guess that truth is jesus since jesus calls himself the way, the truth, and the life. remember now, he only speaks what the father tells him.

yeah, he also call him himself the light:

john 8:12(NIV)
When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”

now we know that Jesus said that no one would come to the father except through him and now he's saying that whoever follows me will never walk in darkness. this is more on the father glorifying his son.

but here is concrete evidence that God has glorified his son to be worshiped.

matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

this is utter blasphemy on the part of Jesus right here!

why would Jesus, who only does what the father tells him, not say to his disciples when they started worshiping him "no! stop that! this is blasphemy! you should worship God and God only"?

its what the angel did:

revelation 22:8-9
I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me.9 But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!

why would Jesus say something as blasphemous as "all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me"? given to him by who? only God the father has that stuff so Jesus is saying God gave that to him.

why does Jesus, who only speaks what the father tells him, say something like that?

maybe because this was God the father's will and plan all along.

want more?

luke 24:36-53
While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.









i dont serve two master, i only serve one in praising Jesus as God the father commanded. it doesnt make Jesus greater than God as God still remains the most high. it simply means that God the father has glorified his son's name to be worshiped and made him the final atonement for sins though his death and shedding of blood.

Jesus has been here since the beginning as the the scripture says in genesis let US make man in OUR image and in OUR likeness. this "us' was the trinity(father, son, holy spirit).



john 1:1-18
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it. 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God — 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.




bottomline, when you worship Jesus, you're worshiping God because Jesus IS God. they are ONE in THREE. God, Jesus, and the holy spirit are 3 different persons but the Glory and majesty of God the father and creator are fully present in all 3 persons.
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Old 08-09-2012, 12:15 PM   #69
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here's an extra one:

john 17:1-5

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4 I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)
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Old 08-09-2012, 01:59 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
New International Version (©1984)
The LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger."


New International Version (©1984)
but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."



New International Version (©1984)
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
This takes me back to when this site was FIRE,

I've learnt so much from this forum, cant believe its been almost ten years..


peace and eternal blessings to all those who have contributed to KTL

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Old 08-09-2012, 03:55 PM   #71
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Jesus' sacrifice made it possible for all people to come to God. the jew and the gentile.




maybe it's his bloodline that he's talking about and not his red body juice - he made it possible for all of them to come to god by mixing seed -

so that a god would rise up from among every race from 6 to 9 ether. he made a blood sacrifice and was killed for sharing his power which before that exclusively belonged to the children of Israel -




this is why the melting pot was established - everyone comes here to witness that great Sun that will animate and move the masses of the world -

this is why we make stars out of our entertainers - we are looking for that great one - this is why Mcs talk about killing fake Mcs and how they are the best and stand out more than the rest.


he did speak in parables right ?


the scripture where the Jesus of revelations speaks about being the alpha and omega - the first and the last .... i take this as saying that he was born from the 2 nations who were initially against each other. and that he would be the connection ....


and would restore them to a better life by bringing them to a healthier state of mind and body - and this would eventually lead them to live an everlasting life....brb























Surah

3:49 "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:11 PM   #72
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but here is concrete evidence that God has glorified his son to be worshiped.

matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

this is utter blasphemy on the part of Jesus right here!

why would Jesus, who only does what the father tells him, not say to his disciples when they started worshiping him "no! stop that! this is blasphemy! you should worship God and God only"?

New International Version (©1984)

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.



so this was before Jesus's glorification and promotion to top rank right ?
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Old 08-09-2012, 04:12 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by soul controller View Post
This takes me back to when this site was FIRE,

I've learnt so much from this forum, cant believe its been almost ten years..


peace and eternal blessings to all those who have contributed to KTL





peace yo - what did you get from that scripture ?
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:33 PM   #74
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New International Version (©1984)

"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.



so this was before Jesus's glorification and promotion to top rank right ?
yes it was but,

understand that jesus did not do anything on his own. everything he said and did was on the command of God the father so he was not gonna take credit for anything apart from God the father.
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

Last edited by THE W; 08-09-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 08-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #75
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maybe it's his bloodline that he's talking about and not his red body juice - he made it possible for all of them to come to god by mixing seed -

so that a god would rise up from among every race from 6 to 9 ether. he made a blood sacrifice and was killed for sharing his power which before that exclusively belonged to the children of Israel -
not so,

the full brunt of God's rath for the sins of mankind was released on Jesus in him being sacrificed on the cross. without such a sacrifice of the pure sinless lamb, which was jesus, we have no atonement for our sins other than the old covenant of going into the most holy place of the temple and sacrificing animals.

which is why in the last supper passage jesus talks about the NEW covenant in his blood which was "poured out for you"(us).
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The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1:18-20)

Last edited by THE W; 08-09-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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