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Old 11-27-2012, 03:22 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Jin10304 View Post
You havent heard ONE song from LIR so you have NO GROUNDS of judgement.

"production won't be as good, don't see him putting the same effort into this album like he did back then. Made In Brooklyn was dope, but wasn't fucking with No Said Date. Why would you think this one would be better? "

MIB was strictly a Brooklyn album duh lol, he didnt seek too much from Wu producers minus Bronze because most of the producers he used were from BK. It was more of a tribute to his hometown than expanding the sound of his own or Wu-Tang for that matter. LIR as he said is more of the album Wu fans are EXPECTING from him (ala Wu guests & production). He was never trying to top NSD with MIB. You havent even heard a snippet from LIR yet you already know production wont be as good LOL smh. Plus, for the time being SC was released when practically NO ONE ANYMORE had faith in the Wu. Their golden years & peak had already come & gone, yet Ghost had fire under his ass & proved everyone wrong. You wont know how good the album can be until you sit your ass down & LISTEN to it point blank period. Stop judging things you have no listening experiences on.
What kind of argument is that? So what I haven't heard anything, that says nothing. I gave an example earlier and I'll do it again; I haven't heard anything from the next Wu-Tang Clan album (whether it gets released or not, just a example) but it will definitely not top 36 Chambers or Wu-Tang Forever.

Think about it how does he get better beats than the beats he made at that time. He actually could do that but then he should start working with producers like Madlib, Damu The Fudgemunk, J Rawls, Oh No and some other producers with these skills. Even if RZA would fully produce it, won't be as good as No Said Date, quote me on that.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:28 AM   #47
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"So what I haven't heard anything, that says nothing"

That says how can one be a critic when they haven't heard the product? 36 & Forever were both made during their height so its a classic debate on which album was superior. My Ghostface example, on the other hand, holds more weight. 1996 was when Wu was still on top so of course IRONMAN is bangin'. When SC dropped, no one had faith in Wu, no one thought they could drop another album that would top the earlier group albums or the 1st round of solos since they were all released in the their heyday & now who would believe that the Wu would do anything relevant in a post-2000 rap scene? SC changed that dynamic that a great album can be made in post-2000 hip-hop AND wasn't recorded during their Golden Years. NSD came along in that same climate, 2004 was a shit year for Wu releases (minus certain Pretty Toney tracks) and BAM, MK hits us with a damn near classic debut....in 2004, who can still do that besides Ghost post-2000 in Wu-Tang?. If a great album like NSD can be made in that time period AFTER the Wu's initial success, LIR can carry the torch of another great MK release. It may not be his 2nd album, who knows LIR may draw comparisons to his great debut just like Ghost's 1st two albums (one being outside the golden era)
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:38 AM   #48
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I'm talking music in general. In 2000 there was still a lot, lot of quality music out there. Today there is very little music out there that could top shit from 12 years ago. You had albums like Like Water For Chocolate and Train Of Thought. I don't get the whole "No one had faith in the Wu anymore" either, maybe it's cause I was too young, but Beneath The Surface is a fantastic album, Immobilarity is a great album, not as good as their previous work but still.

Supreme Clientele had great production, that's because at that time Ghost could pull it off. You can't get beats from that level unless you digg some underground shit and stop working with these producers that are long past their prime.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:43 AM   #49
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Sure there was still great Hip-Hop in 2000, but for Wu-Tang??? It was an all time SLUMP for them. Each release around 1998 was given mixed reviews, compared greatly to their debuts (something I guess the reviewers were expecting each member to either top or match) or just plain flat out hated on. Immobilarity, at least around here, is generally praised for Raekwon's growth in lyrics but your kidding yourself on the production tip especially coming off Cuban Linx I. BTS was hated on for the skits, some beats & greatly compared back to LSI. It was a long string of 2nd round solos that was diminishing the Wu brand, even the Killa Beez. For SC, Ghost & RZA basically hand-crafted that album from all the samples aquired by the various producers to make it work & sound cohesive, thats why its considered a "resurrection album for the Clan" AFTER a slew of subpar releases.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:27 AM   #50
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2. Intro
Producer: Allah Mathematics
-
3. Soul & Substance
Producer: Mediate Soul-
4. R U Listening
Producer: Inspectah Deck (of Wu-Tang Clan)-
5. Things Just Ain't The Same
Producer: PF Cuttin-
6. Part 2-
7. Cali Sun
featuring Kurupt
Producer: Dash-
8. What U See
Producer: Koolade-
9. Food
Producer: 9th Wonder-
10. Skit # 2-
11. All Natural
Producer: Allah Mathematics-1
2. Wise Words
Producer: Masta Killa (of Wu-Tang Clan)-
13. Divine Glory
Producer: Masta Killa (of Wu-Tang Clan)-
14. Skit # 3-
15. Dirty Soul
featuring Ol' Dirty Bastard (of Wu-Tang Clan)
Producer: Blackinati-
16. Wisdom
Producer: Allah Mathematics

if the snippets play in correct order, PArt 2 sounds like 9th Wonder to me. and again if that all plays in series Math killed All Natural, thats shits crazy

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Old 11-29-2012, 09:56 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Jin10304 View Post
Sure there was still great Hip-Hop in 2000, but for Wu-Tang??? It was an all time SLUMP for them. Each release around 1998 was given mixed reviews, compared greatly to their debuts (something I guess the reviewers were expecting each member to either top or match) or just plain flat out hated on. Immobilarity, at least around here, is generally praised for Raekwon's growth in lyrics but your kidding yourself on the production tip especially coming off Cuban Linx I. BTS was hated on for the skits, some beats & greatly compared back to LSI. It was a long string of 2nd round solos that was diminishing the Wu brand, even the Killa Beez. For SC, Ghost & RZA basically hand-crafted that album from all the samples aquired by the various producers to make it work & sound cohesive, thats why its considered a "resurrection album for the Clan" AFTER a slew of subpar releases.
Supreme Clientele is a classic and it's timeless but you're talking about something 12 years ago. Let's see between Forever and Supreme Clientele recordings there's a gap of 2/3 years. It has been 13 years since then, these producers today can't pull it of. Who is Masta Killa going to ask today, you tell me. He will throw some Wu Elements producers on there who lost is, maybe 2 tracks by RZA, a 9th Wonder that also lost it, some producer that samples an already sampled track and makes it worse. It's what it is today, not saying the album will be bad cause I will just wait and listen to it, but better than No Said Date? Really, I don't think so.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #52
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I also get your point about when Wu was finished, but just imagine if they were finished with releases like Bobby Digital In Stereo, Beneath The Surface and Immobilarity how bad things are right now.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Jin10304 View Post
Sure there was still great Hip-Hop in 2000, but for Wu-Tang??? It was an all time SLUMP for them. Each release around 1998 was given mixed reviews, compared greatly to their debuts (something I guess the reviewers were expecting each member to either top or match) or just plain flat out hated on. Immobilarity, at least around here, is generally praised for Raekwon's growth in lyrics but your kidding yourself on the production tip especially coming off Cuban Linx I. BTS was hated on for the skits, some beats & greatly compared back to LSI. It was a long string of 2nd round solos that was diminishing the Wu brand, even the Killa Beez. For SC, Ghost & RZA basically hand-crafted that album from all the samples aquired by the various producers to make it work & sound cohesive, thats why its considered a "resurrection album for the Clan" AFTER a slew of subpar releases.
the real slump was 03 until Fishscale
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #54
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This GENIUS dude is always arguing with some one lol
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:18 AM   #55
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This album sounds amazing from the snippets.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:37 PM   #56
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"Who is Masta Killa going to ask today, you tell me. He will throw some Wu Elements producers on there who lost is, maybe 2 tracks by RZA, a 9th Wonder that also lost it, some producer that samples an already sampled track and makes it worse."

I wouldnt be mad if he worked with the same folks on NSD for LIR. For the most part it was mainly Wu-production IN HOUSE. Since MK is making more beats himself I wouldnt be mad at that with some 9th Wonder, obvious RZA & Bronze tracks, Mathematics & hopefully Tru Master if his legal troubles get dealt with before his release. For 13 tracks NSD was crafted mainly by the Wu-Elements with some outside help bby Brock, Baby Dooks, Dave West & Choco.

3 by RZA
3 by Mathematics (which doesnt seem to be a problem getting him on a project)
3 by Tru Master
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #57
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This GENIUS dude is always arguing with some one lol
lol not going to deny this, but that's probably why I'm here; to argue and discuss and spread some news.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:08 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Jin10304 View Post
"Who is Masta Killa going to ask today, you tell me. He will throw some Wu Elements producers on there who lost is, maybe 2 tracks by RZA, a 9th Wonder that also lost it, some producer that samples an already sampled track and makes it worse."

I wouldnt be mad if he worked with the same folks on NSD for LIR. For the most part it was mainly Wu-production IN HOUSE. Since MK is making more beats himself I wouldnt be mad at that with some 9th Wonder, obvious RZA & Bronze tracks, Mathematics & hopefully Tru Master if his legal troubles get dealt with before his release. For 13 tracks NSD was crafted mainly by the Wu-Elements with some outside help bby Brock, Baby Dooks, Dave West & Choco.

3 by RZA
3 by Mathematics (which doesnt seem to be a problem getting him on a project)
3 by Tru Master
Yes, but back then Wu Elements was still ripping it, nowadays not so much. Will Tru Master and Mathematics still provide heavy beats, we'll see. I'm sure it won't be better than NSD tho.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:51 PM   #59
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MK is better NOW than he ever was...

hes only gotten better and better honestly...

the way he styled that DRIVIN ROUND was butter...

"this is wu block music for the black hooded champions"

masta killa dead pan pimp shit this LP sounds real good... another winner for MK
Not sure I can go as far as better coz MK did some absolute evil evil stuff in the golden era. But I like his progression. The ninja in the shadows has become this smooth calm 'dude'. Sounds like his life is in a good place. Much respect.

It used to annoy the fuck out of me when reviews were like - oh and there's MK who's a poor rapper (maybe along with Uey) in the Clan. Some of the best ryhmes ever came from him imo. I'm coppin this for sure. (And yes - that Drivin Round verse - on a high quality lp - is top)
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:19 PM   #60
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"Yes, but back then Wu Elements was still ripping it, nowadays not so much. Will Tru Master and Mathematics still provide heavy beats, we'll see."

Umm the Elements are still doing just fine nowadays IMO, only they are not utilized as they once were. Of them who have worked on MK's albums, none seem to be doing badly on the production board. Mathematics since at least 2008 up till now with Wu-Massacre's beats have been solid work, not worried about his contributions to SMS. Tru Master just proved he can lace an album full of Wu bangers like his recent album with KRS One, he doesn't need help. RZA can still put out bangers & has been doing pretty fair beats here & there. Redemption Days Remix, Dark Fantasy, Wu-Block, his CL2 beats. Im sure he would lace MK. 4th even though rarely comes out has had some heat in his sparseness (Bugsy's debut indicated this). Bronze & MK are a BEAST combination point blank, Ringing Bells is still one of my favorite productions for him & The Road was will. MK sounds the best over Element production.

"I'm sure it won't be better than NSD tho"

We dont know that
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