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Old 08-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #1
Ghost In The 'Lac
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Default It's fucked up how much better Wu were in '95 than the rest of NY "GOLDEN ERA"

Typical 1995 well respected NY track/production/lyrics here:


i.e 95% of all NY 'street' rap sound out at the time

even if we take something of higher quality from 95 from pete rock:



It's still not competing creatively anywhere near the sound of something like criminology or rainy dayz, objectively.

Then Wu, 95 -




pick any at random that youve heard 10000x but play them back to back to other NY shit and see how dated they make the other shit sound.

wtf? It's production on a entirely different wavelength from that DITC, Buckwild, Lord Finesse, Buckwild shit that already sounded so dated by this point. These break beats boom bap dudes mustve been fucked up because not only were they not being creative enough with the samples their drums werent even banging as hard as RZA's, and that was like 1/5th of what RZA cared about, and about 5/5th's of what they did.

There's nothing comparable these days for the creative differences in the musical sound in hip hop

They did it again in 97, new sound that New York wasn't really producing.


.......

Wu saved New York rap from irrelevance way more than people even say. Had Wu not arrived at this time

Seriously people talk about 1995 being a "GOLDEN ERA" in NY, take away Wu Tang from that year it really wasn't that strong a time.

Other than Wu Tang in 1995, the only NY releases of the year off the top of my head I'd say stand up REALLY well today are -

mobb deep
..
.
...

and that's it. All the other creative shit in hip hop in 95 was elsewhere, you couldn't find it in NY.

If Nas and Biggie hadn't existed in 94 without Wu Tang NY would be looking pretty fragile. The fact those two never came out with another worthy album kind of says it all for new york rap in the mid 90's - it was stale.


(obviously there are exemptions, midnight marauders 93 etc etc)
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Old 08-20-2013, 06:39 PM   #2
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:40 AM   #3
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i agree that the wu production from that time was timeless even tough they sampled old records, but compared to the old repetitive jazzy sounds most producers were using that time but after the wu blew up alot producers were influenced by them and stepped their production game up and u would start to hear imitation wu beats on half of peoples albums like around late 1995. i think B.I.G.s "Who Shot Ya" and Cypress Hill's "Killa Hill Niggas" that year sounded alot like a wu production.
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:53 AM   #4
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I think most of NY just ended up having problems wth Wu Tang rather than stepping up to their level (jointly to do with the bad repuatation they had among other rappers and dj's due to their infamous club appearances)

Wu was blowing up already in 92/93 as the hottest thing in NY but you can see even in 1995/96 most of NY still didn't want to change from that same old burnt out jazz boom bap break beats shit.

NY was stale for most of the period people call Golden Era.

Wu had already moved on to new production style by 97, so I don't agree people other than newly emerging post modern rappers were biting their style (other than the Gambino shit).

I'd say RZA's In Stereo had a much bigger impact on mainstream East coast production than anything Wu did previously.
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Old 08-21-2013, 04:28 AM   #5
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it had to end one way or another... jay z - ' They had a hell of a run'
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Old 08-21-2013, 05:00 AM   #6
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in 95 Rza was on another planet, the guy was an alien. No one could fuck with him. He really bring something to the hip hop game not like many so-called great producers. His impact was devastating even himself can fuck with the genius he once was. Yeah his style was timeless even today it sounds fresh. He was innovative and really wanted to put hip hop shit at another level.

@ mAlAkAz

Killa hill niggaz was produced by Rza...
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:10 AM   #7
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Mid 90's NY rap is mad overrated. Most of it is the same old same old shit you heard in the early 90's stuck on repeat. That's not to say it isn't good or anything but the way fans reminisce about it you would think it was completely innovative and every few years the game would change but it didn't it was pretty much the same shit from the same cats for about a decade.

Wu were one of the few that were innovative and Wu was always ahead of the game and switching up their style with each release, that's true greatness right there. Post OB4CL everyone started coming out with all of these wack gangster aliases because Wu did it lol

1995 is probably the perfect year to compare though. Most of the best releases that year were either second or third drops or in the case of the Wu debut solo joints after a successful group album.

Compare

1995 Wu -

ODB - RTT36C
Rae - OB4CL
GZA - Liquid Swords

to

1995 NY non Wu -

Big L - LSODPAD
AZ - Doe or Die
Smif N Wessun - Dah Shinin
KRS One - KRS One
Masta Ace - Sittin on Chrome
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Onyx - All We Got Iz Uz

It's a no contest. Wu hands down. Then compare the 1995 NY non Wu to other shit in 1995 -

Tha Pharcyde - LabCab
BTNH - E 1999 Eternal
2Pac - Me Against The World
E-40 - In A Major Way
DJ Quik - Safe + Sound
Goodie Mob - Soul Food
8Ball & MJG - Top of the World
Dogg Pound - Dogg Food

There was better shit dropping in 1995 outside of NY save for the Wu and the only release getting close to OB4CL or Liquid Swords was Soul Food so there's no need for people to dick ride mid 90's NY shit



Quote:
Originally Posted by The blackma View Post
in 95 Rza was on another planet, the guy was an alien. No one could fuck with him. He really bring something to the hip hop game not like many so-called great producers. His impact was devastating even himself can fuck with the genius he once was. Yeah his style was timeless even today it sounds fresh. He was innovative and really wanted to put hip hop shit at another level.

@ mAlAkAz

Killa hill niggaz was produced by Rza...
Lol dust will do that
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I didn't like the first Only Built 4 Cuban Linx and i don't know why Wu Tang fans call it a classic because it's not.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:47 AM   #8
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^^ damn... now i prefer wu even more
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:56 AM   #9
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NY owned rap in the 90s as far as quality goes. Not just mid 90s, 90s in general. The Infamous and Dah Shinin shit on all the albums you listed Energy Turtle, except for Labcabincalifornia although I'd say they're still better albums.

I think RZA is a better producer than Diamond D and Lord Finesse, but I don't think his drums alone are clearly better. Especially Diamond D has some crazy drums. RZA's drums on 36 Chambers and Ironman are rediculous though. RZA's production as a whole makes him stand out for me. The themes, skits, sound, all that.

80s & 90s hiphop = drumbreak loops.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:09 AM   #10
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Infamous of course, the rest are nothing special

It's crazy how much dick riding there is on mid 90's NY shit
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I didn't like the first Only Built 4 Cuban Linx and i don't know why Wu Tang fans call it a classic because it's not.
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I say nigga and i'm white
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Energy Turtle View Post
Mid 90's NY rap is mad overrated. Most of it is the same old same old shit you heard in the early 90's stuck on repeat. That's not to say it isn't good or anything but the way fans reminisce about it you would think it was completely innovative and every few years the game would change but it didn't it was pretty much the same shit from the same cats for about a decade.

Wu were one of the few that were innovative and Wu was always ahead of the game and switching up their style with each release, that's true greatness right there. Post OB4CL everyone started coming out with all of these wack gangster aliases because Wu did it lol

1995 is probably the perfect year to compare though. Most of the best releases that year were either second or third drops or in the case of the Wu debut solo joints after a successful group album.

Compare

1995 Wu -

ODB - RTT36C
Rae - OB4CL
GZA - Liquid Swords

to

1995 NY non Wu -

Big L - LSODPAD
AZ - Doe or Die
Smif N Wessun - Dah Shinin
KRS One - KRS One
Masta Ace - Sittin on Chrome
Mobb Deep - The Infamous
Onyx - All We Got Iz Uz

It's a no contest. Wu hands down. Then compare the 1995 NY non Wu to other shit in 1995 -

Tha Pharcyde - LabCab
BTNH - E 1999 Eternal
2Pac - Me Against The World
E-40 - In A Major Way
DJ Quik - Safe + Sound
Goodie Mob - Soul Food
8Ball & MJG - Top of the World
Dogg Pound - Dogg Food

There was better shit dropping in 1995 outside of NY save for the Wu and the only release getting close to OB4CL or Liquid Swords was Soul Food so there's no need for people to dick ride mid 90's NY shit





Lol dust will do that
Exactly, nothing else in east coast 95 was that great, other than Mobb. Same old shit that was sounding dated, east coast couldn't shake it.

Really, like I said 36 chambers killed or shouldve killed that Early 90's NY sound but it didn't, due to the lack of creativity in the supposed Golden Era NY.

Even take it forward to 96.....nothing there really. Other than Fugees and Ironman.

A good example of how fucked up and confused NY was in 96 is Nas second album. And ATCQ's Beats rhymes and life was critisized for failing to do anything new.

Even continue to 1997 - mostly wack. Other than Camp Lo nothing great still in New York. Good job Wu came out with Forever. This ws the year Company Flow came out with a sound very similar to Wu.

1998 ...... still weak!!

Wasn't until Mos Def and MF DOOM came out in 1999 that NY finally did something truly interesting

AND THEN

Best album of 2000? Supreme Clientele! Once again, Wu Tang still setting the scene for NY rap that simply no one else was going with.

I'd take that whole period from 93-98 as a Wooden era, not a golden era.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:36 AM   #12
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Old news !!!!
get a life !
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:08 AM   #13
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yeah, its old news, well done belgian, youre also posting on a wu tang forum in 2013.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #14
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LOL "old news" dude probably only has debut albums from OC, Diamond D and Pete Rock on his ipod shuffle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost In The 'Lac View Post
Exactly, nothing else in east coast 95 was that great, other than Mobb. Same old shit that was sounding dated, east coast couldn't shake it.

Really, like I said 36 chambers killed or shouldve killed that Early 90's NY sound but it didn't, due to the lack of creativity in the supposed Golden Era NY.

Even take it forward to 96.....nothing there really. Other than Fugees and Ironman.

A good example of how fucked up and confused NY was in 96 is Nas second album. And ATCQ's Beats rhymes and life was critisized for failing to do anything new.

Even continue to 1997 - mostly wack. Other than Camp Lo nothing great still in New York. Good job Wu came out with Forever. This ws the year Company Flow came out with a sound very similar to Wu.

1998 ...... still weak!!

Wasn't until Mos Def and MF DOOM came out in 1999 that NY finally did something truly interesting

AND THEN

Best album of 2000? Supreme Clientele! Once again, Wu Tang still setting the scene for NY rap that simply no one else was going with.

I'd take that whole period from 93-98 as a Wooden era, not a golden era.
Let's compare 1996

GFK - Ironman
2Pac - All Eyez On Me + Makaveli
Ras Kass - Soul on Ice
UGK - Ridin Dirty
OutKast - ATLiens
Xzibit - Speed of Life

But WU TANG CORP DOT COM favourite releases that year? It Was Written and Reasonable Doubt lol OB4CL rip offs. I love RD but It Was Written is the album this website loves to dick ride like there's no tomorrow smh nothing new from either album though the superior album dropped 12 months prior and Wu was already on that soulful shit in 96 lol

1997 was probably the worst for NY, at least 1998 had DMX and Big Pun.

Aquemini bodied everything in 1998 though, A Moment of Truth was dope but again we heard it all before. Nothing new.

1999, another weak Nas album. Another album where Jay-Z doesn't know who's style to bite.

It's no surprise the decline of "golden era" rap is attributed to the bling bling era but really that was the time when Mobb Deep fell off and Wu Tang stopped caring as a group, they literally carried an era save for a handful of albums here and there

Imitation is the strongest form of flattery I guess
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I didn't like the first Only Built 4 Cuban Linx and i don't know why Wu Tang fans call it a classic because it's not.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:18 AM   #15
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i feel the same way, wu was just on another level from anything else out at the time

i always wonder why wu doesn't get more props, Recently all of the rappers have been bigging them up by 4-5 yrs ago u wouldnt hear anyone say anything about wu-tang.

i say this from an objective pov too.
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