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Old 10-09-2005, 05:31 PM   #151
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

dont concepts exist? If you interpret the word "existence" in such a way that you can say that numbers, concepts, beauty, truth, etc. dont exist, then I contend that you have chosen a bad interpretation. Certainly all those things are relevant to our lives. Certainly they cannot be seen, touched, and weighed. Thus there are relevant and valid aspects of our experience that EXIST in some way other than physically. recognising this, who can deny the existence (in some relevant but nonphysical sense) of god?
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Old 10-09-2005, 05:35 PM   #152
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

i see what ur saying but here is where "rational thought" and the "atheistic" mindset comes into play.

in this mindset.. concepts ( as long as they are concepts and not brought to fruition or exist in the material world) do not exist logically)
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Old 10-09-2005, 05:36 PM   #153
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

if something is relevant even if conceptual and abstract... that doesnt make it plop into the realm of objective existence
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Old 10-09-2005, 08:10 PM   #154
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

okay so
given all this higher understanding of our physicle make up and its major components of wich it consist. (Beacuse i also agree with many of the things that were said on this forum) we also accept this way of thought because in the end of all this complex politics ,u gotta believe in somethin "watever the fuck it might be". So my quetion is ,arent we just another group or society that is no dfferent from all these others that are trying to isolate themselves in originality and ultimately claim the answer?

(i dont no if i prased that question correctly but )
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Old 10-09-2005, 08:49 PM   #155
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

im not really sure what u are asking...

yes many need to believe in something.. but im not really sure what ur asking
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:03 AM   #156
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
had to do this.. hope it helps on the issue at hand...

Quantum Mechanics Explained

written by Jason Yeldell aka My First Timbs

One must first realize how extremely complicated quantum mechanics is and how far reaching it goes.. this is why it is very difficult to explain it in a few neat sentences and paragraphs because in most cases it takes about 300 pages to describe it accurately (in addition to describing the wholly metaphysical aspect of it which we are doing here!)

but i will try to keep it simply and MAKE IT PLAIN !

1) Quantum mechanics makes us look at the world and universe as if it was a creature that possesses an external body and an internal mind. This outer body of the universe and world is what we scientists have struggled with since the beginning of "time". it is the world as we know it susceptible to natural laws and verifiable thru what i call the "uniformity of experience" (like things in like circumstances always leave predicatble results !).............quantum mechanics is merely the study and theory that encompasses not this outer body of our world view, but rather the "inner workings" behind this outer body on a subatomic level! what is found when scientists study this "inner realm" is that things dont "behave" properly.. ie.. my whole philosophy of the "uniformity of experience" becomes hogwash....this may not seem like a big deal to layppl, but this is a tremendous deal to scientists and scientific disciplines that thrive on making sense of the world we live in by relying on the fact that there is such a thing called the uniformity of experience

2) quantum mechanics studies the fundamental particles thought to be the building blocks of existence and of our universe.. however, after delving into this realm it is perceived that these partiles are actually not real things.. they are nothing but "possibilities" of consciousness, but yet do affect the material world ! now thats mindblowing! that the "stuff" everything is made of may not even be real "stuff" ! In addition.. this stuff doesnt seem to follow equations and probability assumptions we thought.. so what is it and what controls it?

3) human consciousness is controlled by quantum mechanics.. thus controlled by stuff that may not potentially be "real".. thus the human experience is flawed from ever justifying what is "reality".. the human mind may be abstract simply because the material world is not material !
tnx for droppin that timbs!!!!
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:10 AM   #157
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

welcome
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Old 10-10-2005, 04:01 PM   #158
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wooly Noggins

Rahubaat Sena
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Old 10-10-2005, 04:21 PM   #159
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

Peace to timbs for his little essay

i have a question for u, just wanting your opnion..

the whole world is sub atomic particles, everything is made up of it.
them atoms are not solid.. so how can they make things that are solid?
ive read some really interesting shit by russian scientists, that say our dna transmits and recieves data,, this is called junk dna,, would it be possible for our dna with the help of our mind, make everything seem 3-d?
ill add on more later.

peace
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Old 10-10-2005, 04:46 PM   #160
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

peace Timbs

lemme throw a few more bricks on this build:

Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs

1) Quantum mechanics makes us look at the world and universe as if it was a creature that possesses an external body and an internal mind. This outer body of the universe and world is what we scientists have struggled with since the beginning of "time".
i dig this

Quote:
it is the world as we know it susceptible to natural laws and verifiable thru what i call the "uniformity of experience" (like things in like circumstances always leave predicatble results !)
for example - something that can be demonstrated with the eye?
you see something - describe it - demonstrate it - and i agree

we both experience it

Quote:
.............quantum mechanics is merely the study and theory that encompasses not this outer body of our world view, but rather the "inner workings" behind this outer body on a subatomic level! what is found when scientists study this "inner realm" is that things dont "behave" properly.. ie.. my whole philosophy of the "uniformity of experience" becomes hogwash....this may not seem like a big deal to layppl, but this is a tremendous deal to scientists and scientific disciplines that thrive on making sense of the world we live in by relying on the fact that there is such a thing called the uniformity of experience
for example
i type the word 'beautiful'
we are both familiar with this term - with the string of letters forming the word
b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l
but
when asked to define it - or give an example
we run into problems
('that is not beautiful'
'of course it is'
etc)

Quote:
2) quantum mechanics studies the fundamental particles thought to be the building blocks of existence and of our universe.. however, after delving into this realm it is perceived that these partiles are actually not real things.. they are nothing but "possibilities" of consciousness, but yet do affect the material world ! now thats mindblowing!
if i call you a dumb cocksucker
-even tho the words themselves are absolutely meaningless (they contain nothing real)
they are able to affect the material world - as a person can choose to react to these words

and thus:
Quote:
that the "stuff" everything is made of may not even be real "stuff" ! In addition.. this stuff doesnt seem to follow equations and probability assumptions we thought.. so what is it and what controls it?
as i alluded to earlier
quantum theory rests on the assumption of 'control'

Quote:
3) human consciousness is controlled by quantum mechanics.. thus controlled by stuff that may not potentially be "real".. thus the human experience is flawed from ever justifying what is "reality".. the human mind may be abstract simply because the material world is not material !
see - this is where i begin to see it fall apart

it really seems a little unreasonable to assume that human consciousness is 'controlled' by anything


the human experience of defining the environment as a means of controlling it is an illusion
it is something that has been attempted
but
we are at the point now where we can clearly see that it is not possible

thus
quantum physics ends when quantum physicists collectively say that there is a realm called 'undefineable'
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Old 10-10-2005, 05:37 PM   #161
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

yes, quantum theory is quite enigmatic, to put it mildly..when you bury yourself in analysis of this coupled with the more recent string theory, it is difficult not to at least consider an objective, omniscient figure who presides over all of these complexities that we ourselves can barely get our minds around. there seems to be an order in the arbitrary nature of our universe, if that makes any sense. personally, i would say that the dynamic of complexity can be defined as anything that suggests or exhibits a certain sequence, implied organization, or perceived existence. if something exists, then it is hard to question that it is a result of some more exalted process or controlled action. of course, as my 1sttimbs did, one can easily point to the nonsensical logic in the idea of a God, a being that is not superceded by anything else. here, i think we must accept our limitations...if something is so great, so transcendent to fabricate and orchestrate a multiplicity of dimensions and galaxies, then it is probably pertinent to realize that, as a part of this creation, we can never quite conceive of this lofty truth, but this is where it gets murky...most throw out religion because of its ostensibly inherent plagues..but if one could forget all of the socioeconomic and social bullshit that litters theology, i think one could glean some wisdom or truth regarding a systematic edifying of the idea of a God through prophetic revelations...in other words, the 'religious' God is identical to the 'quantum theory' God...
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Old 10-10-2005, 10:53 PM   #162
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

It's a fact that in general, un-educated and lower level educated people are more likely to believe in religions as opposed to higher level educated people.

I think that alone can tell you where god came from.
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Old 10-10-2005, 11:26 PM   #163
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

PEACE
geometry???

good luck!!!!

there are unseen and seen forces present in the physical universe(the planets spinning around the sun, an infinite amount of hearts beating, babies being formed in a womb etc etc)....something is powering and guiding the physical universe.......i have to give thanks for whatever is sustaining my existence....if u don't who cares...i don't......with no hard feelings...i think every one can agree that being a good person is way more important than belief........
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Old 10-11-2005, 06:34 AM   #164
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

there are no unseen forces

there are no mysteries



there are only different ways of telling the same story

from that perspective
ballistics point that
Quote:
in other words, the 'religious' God is identical to the 'quantum theory' God
is pretty much on point
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Old 10-11-2005, 12:28 PM   #165
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Default Re: Does Geometry prove a God's Existence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
im not really sure what u are asking...

yes many need to believe in something.. but im not really sure what ur asking
im just saying that indivuals hoo choose to live in the world of mathmatics are just another group like muslims or catholics
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