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Old 04-21-2006, 12:24 PM   #241
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ummm god never fought a war period...
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:28 PM   #242
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I'm not arguing with you, it's stupid... you think god picks favorites

If god picks favorites why would he let his own son be tortured by romans and be nailed down to a cross where he sat for a week in agonizing pain before he finally died?

You obviously have some sort of vendetta or problem with whatever conception of god you have in your mind because something in life didn't work out for you, in which case you are not open for discussion, because you aren't trying to discuss, you are trying to prove me wrong. If you are trying to prove me wrong, than you have already closed your eyes and ears to what I am saying, so I'll let you talk to these people instead.

P.E.A.C.E

but to answer your question, I don't follow written scriptures, I have my own idea of what God is. God's purpose is to create, he fufilled that purpose, now he is observing.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:40 PM   #243
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legato, he doesn't create then he sits. He watches over us. but you really need to focus and notice his help when he offers it.
Don't ignore your common sense and your conscious cuz they'll lead you to him.
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:49 PM   #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legato
im not and my common sense darlin tells me god does nothing for me or us. if we need something do do it ourselves. aint no miracle comin, no divine intervention, no nothing.
This is the truth

i guess we agree on this situation than legato
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Old 04-21-2006, 12:54 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweet sista
all praise is due to allah, heheh i sure agree with that student when he/she said
all praise do to allah? that student was roman catholic!

but even more importantly, the argument is critically flawed
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeknicelStylez
His fate could've been a hopeless one, the way I see it about kids that get left somewhere to die when they're born is:

If their mother is the type of person to do that to their seed, than imagine if she would've attempted to raise the child. Better off dead IMO.
if thats teh case,, why didnt god prevent the pregnancy?
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Old 04-21-2006, 01:08 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legato
im not and my common sense darlin tells me god does nothing for me or us. if we need something do do it ourselves. aint no miracle comin, no divine intervention, no nothing.
honey, that ain't your common sense. maybe it's the influence of someone else or maybe other thing i dunno what but sure it ain't ya true common senses. as for the things we do and we success get them done. i think he makes sure that things work properly when we truthfuly work on something.


Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
all praise do to allah? that student was roman catholic!

but even more importantly, the argument is critically flawed
heheh
first, i think truth can be acknowledged by anyone with common sense.
second and as for the argument, i don't know i wasn't there.

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Old 04-21-2006, 01:23 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
if thats teh case,, why didnt god prevent the pregnancy?
I was merely trying to explain how the baby's death wasn't the worst case scenario, you know good arising out of bad situations.

I don't believe in divine intervention, I think the concepts rediculous.
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Old 04-21-2006, 05:01 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeknicelStylez
I was merely trying to explain how the baby's death wasn't the worst case scenario, you know good arising out of bad situations.

I don't believe in divine intervention, I think the concepts rediculous.
well see, here in lies the subtle but crucial heart of the debate!

it seems as if (and legato has driven this home so many times but it keeps getting ignored) that there is an overt and outrageous copout and double standard when one believes in a god concept

premise 1 = god knows everything and is in control of everything and is looking out for our best interest (so we praise him for this and offer our worship)

premise 2= when bad things happen, somehow the religionists "cops out" and blames it on the god given gift of free will (as if god isnt ultimately in control of the divine plan)

the religionist for some strange reason will always RATIONALIZE every situation so that a perceived subjective "good" can come out of an apparant negative situation!

call it what it is.. its merely just a rationalization!

when good things happen.. its all good...... but when bad things happen, the religionist is FORCED to quickly and irrationally try to somehow find some "silver lining" in the cloud and then proclaim that this perceived silver lining not only outweighs the cloud, but even more importantly, it was the reason god made the cloud to begin with

silliness
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Old 04-21-2006, 09:59 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
well see, here in lies the subtle but crucial heart of the debate!

it seems as if (and legato has driven this home so many times but it keeps getting ignored) that there is an overt and outrageous copout and double standard when one believes in a god concept

premise 1 = god knows everything and is in control of everything and is looking out for our best interest (so we praise him for this and offer our worship)

premise 2= when bad things happen, somehow the religionists "cops out" and blames it on the god given gift of free will (as if god isnt ultimately in control of the divine plan)

the religionist for some strange reason will always RATIONALIZE every situation so that a perceived subjective "good" can come out of an apparant negative situation!

call it what it is.. its merely just a rationalization!

when good things happen.. its all good...... but when bad things happen, the religionist is FORCED to quickly and irrationally try to somehow find some "silver lining" in the cloud and then proclaim that this perceived silver lining not only outweighs the cloud, but even more importantly, it was the reason god made the cloud to begin with

silliness
See timbs here your putting values on things- you as a man believe is bad versus things that you percieve as good. It's the same putting values to a triangle versus a circle- and thus your arguments is flawed also!

Who's to say what's bad or what's good?

Are we taught right from wrong from our parents- or our we born with the knowledge of what's right- and we learn the bad things from our parents and the world we are brought into?

Free Will is the Gift. We decide what to do with our lives- do we kill or heal?

Premise 1- that's your view of God, orhow you percieive other peoples view of God.

Premise 2- that's your view on relgionists, and God's "divine plan"- on earth we our in control of bringing about god's divine plan and right now we our failing horribly

until you can except God into your life you will never be able to see how he works in your life.
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Old 04-22-2006, 12:45 AM   #251
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thats the same as me saying

"until u believe in my mystical magic, u wont know that their are magical fairies flying around everywhere"

a rational stance cant rely on subjectivity. one shoul dnot have to "believe" in order to see what the issue is.. (once u "believe" its already too late because ur mind is predisposed to interpreting things based on the belief)
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Old 04-22-2006, 04:14 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
thats the same as me saying

"until u believe in my mystical magic, u wont know that their are magical fairies flying around everywhere"

a rational stance cant rely on subjectivity. one shoul dnot have to "believe" in order to see what the issue is.. (once u "believe" its already too late because ur mind is predisposed to interpreting things based on the belief)
True-But when you know something others don't then your playing a totally different ball game
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:03 AM   #253
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like when u talk about things that people aren't good at. yeah maybe you're good at it but they're not. how can they be positive that what you're saying is true when it's not their major. people usually suppose that either you're right and u have so much knowledge or they might think u tryin' to dupe them.
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:26 AM   #254
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i think we get into trouble when we try to figure out gods reasoning for the decisions he makes. we may realize it later, but right now we're not at level to understand the thought process behind why god allows certain things to go down. we're going by what we understand and thats all we know and with that understanding is how we will react to how things happen.

its like if a child asks his father for some ice cream and he says "no". the child will get angry and start crying because they dont understand the though process behind why their father wont let them have the ice cream. they're not mature enough to understand why at that particular time(because the child will ask his father at different time and he may say "yes") why they couldnt get ice cream and with the understanding that child has, they will react to that decision.
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:27 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by My First Timbs
a rational stance cant rely on subjectivity. one shoul dnot have to "believe" in order to see what the issue is.. (once u "believe" its already too late because ur mind is predisposed to interpreting things based on the belief)
i don't think there is a person who doesn't believe at all. not necessarily in god but in certain concepts. even you timbs you do believe in what you believe.

there has to be some kinda situation that took place in someone's life during his/her childhood that created a certain idea in mind.

later, when we grow up we sure start to build or examine our ideas "beliefs" about things in life.

Now it's hard to effect someone's mind cuz he/she is not in a weak position as when they were kids. in other words, reality can be seen without any interference from any old beliefs if it's reality. and if there was an interference it won't be that effective comparing to the truth. for those who wants the truth.
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