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Old 04-02-2007, 03:27 PM   #1
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DO THE MATH

Maori - South Pacific(
KO NGA TAMA A RANGI--Tradition relating to the Origin of the Human Race)

1st verses of creation (genesis)

MEN had but one pair of primitive ancestors; they sprang from the vast heaven that exists above us, and from the earth which lies beneath us. according to the traditions of our race, Rangi and Papa, or Heaven and Earth, were the source from which, in the beginning, all things originated. Darkness then rested upon the heaven and upon the earth, and they still both clave together, for they had not yet been rent apart; and the children they had begotten were ever thinking amongst themselves what might be the difference between darkness and light; they knew that beings had multiplied and increased, and yet light had never broken upon them, but it ever continued dark.

some later verses...same chapter...

The bursting forth of the wrathful fury of Tawhiri-ma-tea against his brothers, was the cause of the disappearance of a great part of the dry land; during that contest a great part of mother Earth was submerged. The names of those beings of ancient days who submerged so large a portion of the earth were--Terrible-rain, Long-continued rain, Fierce-hailstorms; and their progeny were, Mist, Heavy-dew, and Light-dew, and these together submerged the greater part of the earth, so that only a small portion of dry land projected above the sea.


Arawak (Taino - Carib - Boricua...and many more)
I.
OF THE SUPREME BEING.


THERE is a mighty One above: and like Him there is none!
He sits on high, above the sky, where none can see His throne.
He was there ere He made the world, with stars, and moon, and sun;
And evermore He will be there; when each its course has run.
Our tongue gives Him no proper name, but titles more than one;
We call Him "Dweller in the Height," since there He sits alone.
The "Great Our Father," though to Him for comfort none have gone,
And of "Our Maker" oft we speak, but never call upon.

That Mighty Maker all things formed; 'tis He that made them move;
And food for all things He bestows, which seems a proof of love.
  But calm He sits above the sky,
  To Him for succour none can fly,
   He is so high above!


THE FIRE AND THE FLOOD.

Traditions of a deluge, we are told,
In the New World prevailed, as in the Old.
Those of our Araw‚ks may seem absurd,
Yet stranger tales from inland tribes are heard.
And far more wild were those which (Spaniards show)
Were told by that same race in Bohio
(Or Hayti)ófor their race at first possessed
Those lovely islands all, whose charms adorn the west.

'Twas said in Hayti, that from magic gourd,
By accident o'erturned, the deluge poured;
Till then that wondrous gourd enclosed could keep
The num'rous finny tribes that swim the deep.
No trace of that wild legend I have found,
Though strange were the traditions all around.
The Araw‚ks, peculiar, understood
That fire had swept the earth before the water-flood.



Aztec (Ixtlilxochitl's) Legend of the Creation

One of the most complete creation-stories in Mexican mythology is that given by the half-blood Indian author Ixtlilxochitl, who, we cannot doubt, received it directly from native sources. He states that the Toltecs credited a certain Tloque Nahuaque (Lord of All Existence) with the creation of the universe, the stars, mountains, and animals. At the same time he made the first man and woman, from whom all the inhabitants of the earth are descended. This "first earth" was destroyed by the "water-sun." At the commencement of the next epoch the Toltecs appeared, and after many wanderings settled in Huehue Tlapallan (Very Old Tlapallan). Then followed the second catastrophe, that of the "wind-sun." The remainder of the legend recounts how mighty earthquakes shook the world and destroyed the earth-giants. These earth-giants (Quinames) were analogous to the Greek Titans, and were a source of great uneasiness to the Toltecs. In the opinion of the old historians they were descended from the races who inhabited the more northerly portion of Mexico.




Creation-Story of the Mixtecs( Southern tip of Mexico )



When the earth had arisen from the primeval waters, one day the deer-god, who bore the surname Puma-Snake, and the beautiful deer-goddess, or Jaguar-Snake, appeared. They had human form, and with their great knowledge (that is, with their magic) they raised a high cliff over the water, and built on it fine palaces for their dwelling. On the summit of this cliff they laid a copper axe with the edge upward, and on this edge the heavens rested. The palaces stood in Upper Mixteca, close to Apoala, and the cliff was called Place where the Heavens Stood. The gods lived happily together for many centuries, when it chanced that two little boys were born to them, beautiful of form and skilled and experienced in the arts. From the days of their birth they were named Wind-Nine-Snake (Viento de Neuve Culebras) and Wind-Nine-Cave (Viento de Neuve Cavernas). Much care was given to their education, and they possessed the knowledge of how to change themselves into an eagle or a snake, to make themselves invisible, and even to pass through solid bodies.

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Old 04-02-2007, 03:45 PM   #2
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Zapotec Creation Myth ( related to Mixtecs )



Among the Zapotecs, a people related to the Mixtecs, we find a similar conception of the creative process. Cozaana is mentioned as the creator and maker of all beasts in the valuable Zapotec dictionary of Father Juan de Cordova, and Huichaana as the creator of men and fishes. Thus we have two separate creations for men and animals. Cozaana would appear to apply to the sun as the creator of all beasts, but, strangely enough, is alluded to in Cordova's dictionary as "procreatrix," whilst he is undoubtedly a male deity. Huichaana, the creator of men and fishes, is, on the other hand, alluded to as "water," or "the element of water, and "goddess of generation." She is certainly the Zapotec female part of the creative agency. In the Mixtec creation-myth we can see the actual creator and the first pair of tribal gods, who were also considered the progenitors of animals-to the savage equal inhabitants of the world with himself. The names of the brothers Nine-Snake and Nine-Cave undoubtedly allude to light and darkness, day and night. It may be that these deities are the same as Quetzalcoatl and Xolotl (the latter a Zapotec deity), who were regarded as twins. In some ways Quetzalcoatl was looked upon as a creator, and in the Mexican calendar followed the Father and Mother, or original sexual deities, being placed in the second section as the creator of the world and man.


Carib Native ( Original Pirates )

1. THE FIRST PEOPLE.

From on high mankind descended;
 Not (as some would say) for food:
They to cleanse this world intended,
 That it might be fair and good,
Bright and free from soil or stain,
As the moon, or starry train.

While they toiled, the clouds receded,
 Which had borne them from on high:
Vainly for their help they pleaded;
 None restored them to the sky.
Thus mankind remained below,
In a world of toil and woe.


As they wandered, pangs of hunger
 Forced them clayey earth to take;
Which, that they might starve no longer,
 Making fire, they tried to bake.
But their cakes, when they were "done,"
Were like sand, or crumbling stone.

Tamosi had there provided
 Wild fruits, suiting beast or bird.
By those creatures kindly guided
 To the trees which each preferred,
Men partook: but still would sigh
For the food they left on high


A MOHAWK VERSION (in the beginning)

In the regions above there dwelt man-beings who knew not what it is to see one weep, nor what it is for one to die; sorrow and death were thus unknown to them. And the lodges belonging to them, to each of the ohwachiras [families], were large, and very long, because each ohwachira usually abode in a single lodge.
And so it was that within the circumference of the village there was one lodge which claimed two persons, a male man-being and a female man-being. Moreover, these two man-beings were related to each other as brother and sister; and they two were dehninō'taton [down-fended].

In the End...

So it will indeed come to pass. It shall follow closely the course pointed out in thy request. So now, indeed, it will be thy duty to travel continually, for it was thou thyself that requested this. Do thou not then ever fail to do thy duty. Thou must, of course, ever be vigilant; if at whatever time it be there come dangers to the lives of men because great serpents move from place to place in the depths of this earth and also in the sea; if it come to
p. 339
pass that at some time these great serpents desire to seize people as they severally travel from place to place, thou must at once kill such serpents, and when thou killest them, they will be that on which thou shalt feed. Other animals also, equal in otkon orenda [malefic magic power] a to these, all such shall fare like them. Thou wilt ever have these to watch--have these as thy adversaries. Now then, of course, I have finished this matter. Now then such is the office thou hast assumed. Mankind will name thee "Our Grandfatherwhose-voice-is-customarilv-uttered-in-divers-places."' Then, indeed, they two parted company. There the, legend ends.



Celtic -Egyptian ( The Kolbrin )

Chapter 1

CREATION
Mortal knowledge is circumscribed by mortal ignorance, and mortal comprehension is circumscribed by spiritual reality. It is unwise for mortal man to attempt the understanding of that which is beyond his conception, for there lies the road to disbelief and madness. Yet man is man and ever fated to reach out beyond himself, striving to attain things which always just elude his grasp. So in his frustration he replaces the dimly seen incomprehensible with things within his understanding. If these things but poorly reflect reality, then is not the reflection of reality, distorted though it may be, of greater value than no reflection at all?
There are no true beginnings on Earth, for here all is effect, the ultimate cause being elsewhere. For who among men can say which came first, the seed or the plant? Yet in truth it is neither, for something neither seed nor plant preceded both, and that thing was also preceded by something else. Always there are ancestors back to the beginning, and back beyond to there is only God. This, then, is how these things were told in The Great Book of Fire

CHAPTER THREE
THE DESTRUCTION AND RE-CREATION

It is known, and the story comes down from ancient times, that there was not one creation but two, a creation and a re-creation. It is a fact known to the wise that the Earth was utterly destroyed once then reborn on a second wheel of creation.
At the time of the great destruction of Earth, God caused a dragon from out of Heaven to come and encompass her about. The dragon was frightful to behold, it lashed its tail, it breathed out fire and hot coals, and a great catastrophe was inflicted upon mankind. The body of the dragon was wreathed in a cold bright light and beneath, on the belly, was a ruddy hued glow, while behind it trailed a flowing tail of smoke. It spewed out cinders and hot stones and its breath was foul and stenchful, poisoning the nostrils of men. Its passage caused great thunderings and lightnings to rend the thick darkened sky, all Heaven and Earth being made hot. The seas were loosened from their cradles and rose up, pouring across the land. There was an awful, shrilling trumpeting which outpowered even the howling of the unleashed winds.
Men, stricken with terror, went mad at the awful sight in the Heavens. They were loosed from their senses and dashed about, crazed, not knowing what they did. The breath was sucked from their bodies and they were burnt with a strange ash.
Then it passed, leaving Earth enwrapped within a dark and glowering mantle which was ruddily lit up inside. The bowels of the Earth were torn open in great writhing upheavals and a howling whirlwind rent the mountains apart. The wrath of the sky-monster was loosed in the Heavens. It lashed about in flaming fury, roaring like a thousand thunders; it poured down fiery destruction amid a welter of thick black blood. So awesome was the fearfully aspected thing that the memory mercifully departed from man, his thoughts were smothered under a cloud of forgetfulness.

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Old 04-02-2007, 03:55 PM   #3
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Feel free to add other cultures to the mix.

If this awakened you- come build.

If it did not do anything for you but cast doubt - then there's no room for you to build here.
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:37 PM   #4
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its really nuthin new dude...

if you're interested in this i STRONGLY recommend Joseph Campbell's Hero with a 1,000 Faces...

ALL the stories all throughout the world, every culture, follow the same basic structure and principles....its pretty amazing actually..
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Old 04-02-2007, 04:50 PM   #5
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Have you ever heard of the Puppuh Vuh?

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Old 04-02-2007, 05:05 PM   #6
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It's come to my understanding, similar to some of these creation stories that:

This is not the first time humans have lived on this earth or have been created on earth.

There was a big flood at one time.

and....

Quote:
These earth-giants (Quinames) were analogous to the Greek Titans, and were a source of great uneasiness to the Toltecs.
There are, or were giants of some kind here. The only evidence that I know of, was covered up.
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Old 04-02-2007, 06:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by the silencer View Post
its really nuthin new dude...

if you're interested in this i STRONGLY recommend Joseph Campbell's Hero with a 1,000 Faces...

ALL the stories all throughout the world, every culture, follow the same basic structure and principles....its pretty amazing actually..
Yes - but there's one thing about this whole thread I haven't gotten to yet. All these stories have a foundation - an original main story that happened in one place.

And I'm positive this was news to some of those hanging upside down in a cave.
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Old 04-02-2007, 06:58 PM   #8
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There is definitely evidence of gigantism. Its been seen especially and confirmed in many ancient animals, that being giant apes, dinasaurs, bears, beavers, etc.

Pretty much all ancient societies have story's of the great flood....and the dragons falling from the sky with a 'tail of smoke' sounds like a comet...a comet or an asteroids would have devastating effects depending on its size, and would cause clouds and darkness from the emission of dust into the atmosphere.
Some say the 'little ice age' that took place in europe during the middle ages was a result of a comet or meteorite. And the earth DOES have scars from such happenings. What we know of our history is so minute that its amazing how far we have come so quickly, and who knows were we will go.

Then there is the ancient city of atlantis....it really makes you wonder what kind of societies were here before this.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:03 PM   #9
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If the whole purpose of this post is original man came from africa, like your trying to rub it in white and yellow and red peoples faces, its kinda dumb.
I dont know what your intentions are but nobody truly knows were it all began. If you are doing that than your letting American racism and recent colonial history cloud your judgement and bias your opinion. No true scientist, whether pro or amateur, nor theologan should let bias affect truth and fact.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:50 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyTooch View Post
If the whole purpose of this post is original man came from africa, like your trying to rub it in white and yellow and red peoples faces, its kinda dumb.
I dont know what your intentions are but nobody truly knows were it all began. If you are doing that than your letting American racism and recent colonial history cloud your judgement and bias your opinion. No true scientist, whether pro or amateur, nor theologan should let bias affect truth and fact.
Now why would a Red Black and White man want to rub anything in anybodies face about race- that would mean that I must hate myself.

Anyhow - what people don't realise is that before the deluge happened - fire & brimstone happens. In the Arawak version and the Kolbrin's.

What caused the fire? You say a comet. Sumerian history says a planet comes every Sar (3600 years) - geological proof exists. The pacific ocean is still not healed from an ancient collision involving one of that "rogue" planets moons - it's called the pacific ring of fire.

What you call comets is actually the earth's water and matter in space from that collision.
The whole story was known to the Sumerians.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:00 PM   #11
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Right...I have heard that theory of a rival planet crashing into earth, leaving that crater u mention and thus forming the moon. BUT, no humans would have been around back then, and then you have to consider that the earth has had three atmospheres, at one time was called 'snowball earth' because its oceans were completely frozen over.....
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:03 PM   #12
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What you call comets is actually the earth's water and matter in space from that collision.


This could absolutely be true. For anyone who believes there is no God...just study space and the universe. We come from all of it...if you break it down, you will find that.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:11 PM   #13
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allANDRES View Post
Have you ever heard of the Puppuh Vuh?
Yes I did. That one is one of the deepest.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the silencer View Post
its really nuthin new dude...

if you're interested in this i STRONGLY recommend Joseph Campbell's Hero with a 1,000 Faces...

ALL the stories all throughout the world, every culture, follow the same basic structure and principles....its pretty amazing actually..
I guess it isn't really anything "new" but sometimes its good to see all these sides of many cultures pointing in one direction.

For breaking things down the other way, yes its easy....I studied earth science for years

But this thread isnt about that.
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