0
 

home
news
wu-tang clan
bio's
media
store
blogs
forum
contact

Go Back   Wu-Tang Corp. - Official Site of the Wu-Tang Clan > Misc > Scriptures Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2007, 09:29 AM   #31
Cthulhu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 812
Rep Power: 10
Cthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Fist View Post
I don't think he would care if he did or if he does. He's expressed that sentiment before.
Indeed, and this is the very reason I feel so threatened by religious people. Most refuse to listen to any sort of reason that contradicts their faith. This is not conducive to rational decision making, especially when the stakes are so direly high in this age. Had we clung on to alchemy and astrology as viable ways to explain the world, we would have none of the understanding about chemicals and the universe that we do now. Religion has proven time and time again that it refuses to accept new ideas until it's been incontroveritbly proven wrong, and then it has to shamefully accept that it was mistaken. We live in a world where the situations are much too risky to await such reflection from these people. It took the Catholic Church til 1993 to apologize for the Inquisition and absolve Galileo of heresy. How many millions must die in developing countries from HIV and other diseases before it acknowledges that condemning condom use was a grievous mistake? Must we wait another 400 + years?
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2007, 04:58 PM   #32
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
What makes you all so sure that

1.) A God exists

2.) The God you worship is the right one?

Leaving the first point alone for a minute, how can you be so sure the Abrahamic God and the scriptures of those religions are the correct ones when you could have easily been born a Buddhist, Mazdasist/Zoroastrian, Jainist, Hindu, or any other among thousands of world religions?


As for the god thing itself, why do you even WANT to believe some nasty gloating omniscient dictator controls every aspect of your life?


Answer the omnipotence paradox:

Could God create a rock that he cannot lift? Or could God kill himself?

If god could not do these things, it would be a compromise to his omnipotence. If he can accomplish these things, it still compromises his omnipotence. The concept of omnipotence defies basic logic itself. And don't come tell me that "God is above logic" as you try to defend your delusions with pseudo-logical hypotheses that you could never even prove with empirical evidence.
you "logic" is silly to put it nicely

there are major fallacies with this argument.

1. to assume that God can lift anything is absurd. God does not exist in that plane of existence. you are placing human characteristics (as alot of religious texts do) onto God, who is not human.

but to play along....
mass, weight and size are irrelevant to defining Gods power. since God is the creator of such dimensions it is impossible to create such a rock. just like its impossible to asphyxiate yourself by holding your breath. the mechanism, conscious thought, which restricts airflow, is also the mechanism you wish to destroy. so the moment you lose consciousness is also the moment you stop choking yourself.
you look for absolutes where it is impossible to find them.
the only absolute is existence. and contained within that existence is

God Energy Matter and Life .

God being the source of all things
Energy being the preferred mode of transportation of God
Matter being the Physical manifestation of Energy
Life being the sum of all these Parts.

2. It is irrelevant whether you believe in God or not or which God you worship, if you do believe. just like its irrelevant whether you think that rain is condensed moisture from the air or its Gods Tears. If you go outside you will get wet. Just like you can choose not believe in Gravity. but the evidence is all around you.

to believe in gravity is believe in an unseen force between matter. but on the quantum level, matter is nothing but an expression of foam vibration. but yet if that vibration is altered the foam manifests as energy which will not attract. and what is the source of the energy for this continuous vibration if energy itself is created through this vibration?

even stranger still is the phenomenon of an accelerating universe.
science has invented "dark matter", which we are supposed to believe in tho we have no evidence of such a thing, just to prove that the laws of gravity hold true outside of our earthly existence.
even our galaxy does not abide by the laws of gravity. on a galactic scale there is not enough mass to account for the "gravitational pull required to hold this galaxy together and not dissipate into nothingness.

so please mr all knowing self righteous science guy keep your bullshit to yourself. because you obviously have no fucking idea what you are talking about. stop watching videos and start reading books.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2007, 05:08 PM   #33
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
Had we clung on to alchemy and astrology as viable ways to explain the world, we would have none of the understanding about chemicals and the universe that we do now.
wrong!!! if we had stuck with these we would have a better understanding of the universe. and the relationship between thought reality matter and energy.

and its astronomy not astrology.

As a true practitioner of alchemy i can tell you that it is the true marriage between the mind, the spirit and matter.

you must realize that most modern physics experiments are conducted in the mind.

and to address your example of AIDS...if the religious tenants of abstinence and marital fidelity were practiced then AIDS would not be an issue.

I think your issue is more against the European Perversion of Christianity than against religion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 12:11 AM   #34
Ultimate Fist
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,649
Rep Power: 11
Ultimate Fist shaolin monk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLEMASTERR View Post
wrong!!! if we had stuck with these we would have a better understanding of the universe. and the relationship between thought reality matter and energy.

and its astronomy not astrology.

As a true practitioner of alchemy i can tell you that it is the true marriage between the mind, the spirit and matter.

you must realize that most modern physics experiments are conducted in the mind.

and to address your example of AIDS...if the religious tenants of abstinence and marital fidelity were practiced then AIDS would not be an issue.

I think your issue is more against the European Perversion of Christianity than against religion.
Tell that to someone who's getting stoned to death in Iran...
Ultimate Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 01:37 AM   #35
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Fist View Post
Tell that to someone who's getting stoned to death in Iran...
yall are really out of touch with humanity/reality.
its funny, how all yall look at all the horrible things that have been done in the name of God, but refuse to even recognize the overwhelmingly massive amounts of good things done in the name of God.
i guess i would tend to be more open to your comments if they weren't so blatantly biased. i guess yall don't realize that the majority of people need religion to regulate and guide themselves, even tho we may not need it.

i don't practice religion but at least i can see the value in it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 02:13 AM   #36
Ultimate Fist
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,649
Rep Power: 11
Ultimate Fist shaolin monk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLEMASTERR View Post
yall are really out of touch with humanity/reality.
its funny, how all yall look at all the horrible things that have been done in the name of God, but refuse to even recognize the overwhelmingly massive amounts of good things done in the name of God.
i guess i would tend to be more open to your comments if they weren't so blatantly biased. i guess yall don't realize that the majority of people need religion to regulate and guide themselves, even tho we may not need it.

i don't practice religion but at least i can see the value in it.
I proved that Western Christianity isn't the only religion that causes problems, deal with it. Don't make ignorant statements then accuse me of being out of touch when I show you how stupid something you said was. You can't deal with my points, so you try to change the subject and do personal attacks like saying I must hate religion and be blatantly biased, like you know me. Nigga, this is the first time I've seen you post here, you don't know me, be real!

EDIT: I went on your homepage and you quote Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan, in one of your blog entries. WTF? You're accusing me of being anti-religious, and you're quoting LaVey?

Last edited by Ultimate Fist; 09-25-2007 at 02:29 AM.
Ultimate Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 03:21 PM   #37
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ok... 1st of all you need to back your claims up with proof. show me where i quoted lavey.
but even if i did quote lavey (which i didn't) how does that make me anti-religious when satanism itself is a religion. and like i said "religion is necessary for most people to to regulate and guide themselves." you need to work on your reading comprehension. try reading some short stories then quiz yourself on the plot and main characters then step it up to trying to remember the details

2nd like i said you charge religion for causing problems and in effect claim that the world would be better without it. right? or were you just trying to be contrary by posing a counterpoint that had no deeper implication to my argument ? my statements were in response to Cthulhu. All of his grievences were with catholicism and christian dogma.
i never claimed that other reigions were flawless. that was an assumption you made.
but...
my post to you encompassed a response to your claim and continued to delve further into topic. i was not avoiding or changing the subject, i merely was trying to kill 2 birds but if i moved too fast for you i'll slow down.
and i'll try to be more considerate of your feelings in the future. i didn't think my statements were personal in nature but i forget that humanity has a spectrum of sensitivity and some people don't see things as objectively as others do.
but i believe that you are biased because you didn't try to chastise Cthulhu for personal attacks. was it because you agreed with his position or was there another reason? just curious.

3rd so what i don't know you. i am able deduce some things about you by the posts you made. plus acquaintance isn't a prerequisite for debate. i don't have to be your friend before i can criticize your claims? lol. u get real.

FYI
and i'd prefer it if you didn't call me a nigga. you may identify with that term but i don't. i have elevated above the nigga mentality you should too.

Last edited by STYLE; 09-25-2007 at 03:39 PM. Reason: added sarcasm
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 04:27 PM   #38
Ultimate Fist
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,649
Rep Power: 11
Ultimate Fist shaolin monk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLEMASTERR View Post
ok... 1st of all you need to back your claims up with proof. show me where i quoted lavey.
but even if i did quote lavey (which i didn't) how does that make me anti-religious when satanism itself is a religion. and like i said "religion is necessary for most people to to regulate and guide themselves." you need to work on your reading comprehension. try reading some short stories then quiz yourself on the plot and main characters then step it up to trying to remember the details

***
From your blog, second to bottom entry:

"What is a psychic vampire?
In the words of Anton LaVey..."

And you clearly do not understand LaVeys's philosophy thoroughly. He formed the Church of Satan to mock religion and he advocated taxing churches to minimize their impact on society.
***


2nd like i said you charge religion for causing problems and in effect claim that the world would be better without it. right? or were you just trying to be contrary by posing a counterpoint that had no deeper implication to my argument ?
***

I was addressing your statement; it really didn't have any larger implications. If you consider that "just being contrary" than yes, I was because your comment was ignorant. And no I do not think we would be better off without religion, I think we would be better off with better thought out religious views. Are Osama Bin Laden's ideas and the Dalai Lama's equal because they're both religious?

***

my statements were in response to Cthulhu. All of his grievences were with catholicism and christian dogma.
i never claimed that other reigions were flawless. that was an assumption you made.

***
"I think your issue is more against the European Perversion of Christianity than against religion."

Ahem, that may not say other religions are flawless but it shows a limited comprehension of the problem.

***
but...
my post to you encompassed a response to your claim and continued to delve further into topic. i was not avoiding or changing the subject, i merely was trying to kill 2 birds but if i moved too fast for you i'll slow down.
and i'll try to be more considerate of your feelings in the future. i didn't think my statements were personal in nature but i forget that humanity has a spectrum of sensitivity and some people don't see things as objectively as others do.

***

You're the one that edited a post to "add sarcasm" Mr. Objective.

***
but i believe that you are biased because you didn't try to chastise Cthulhu for personal attacks. was it because you agreed with his position or was there another reason? just curious.

***
I didn't chastise him because he was talking about Urban who's friggin nuts. I don't know if you've followed his post but he does not believe in free speech if it does not fit inside Islamic law.

And if being without bias is required on this website, you've got about 900 other people to yell at.
***

3rd so what i don't know you. i am able deduce some things about you by the posts you made. plus acquaintance isn't a prerequisite for debate. i don't have to be your friend before i can criticize your claims? lol. u get real.

***
Uh huh. So I'm an anti-religious minister?

That's what I thought. You might want to do your research.

***
FYI
and i'd prefer it if you didn't call me a nigga. you may identify with that term but i don't. i have elevated above the nigga mentality you should too.

***
If you're looking for a business party, go to a business party. This is Wu Tang Corp. You think I've got a "nigga mentality" you better throw out your rap CDs before you become one of us again... one of them niggas that's not acting like they're shit don't stain.
.

Last edited by Ultimate Fist; 09-25-2007 at 04:43 PM.
Ultimate Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 07:01 PM   #39
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

i wear brown underwear so i never have stains.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 07:06 PM   #40
Ultimate Fist
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,649
Rep Power: 11
Ultimate Fist shaolin monk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLEMASTERR View Post
i wear brown underwear so i never have stains.
Good idea.
Ultimate Fist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 09:20 PM   #41
Cthulhu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 812
Rep Power: 10
Cthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkey
Default

My God, you're a gigantic idiot.

1.) People do not need religion to do good things. Any charity done in the name of whatever god can easily be done out of sheer kindness. It's much less selfish than thinking you get a reward in the afterlife for it.

2.) I KNOW VERY FUCKING WELL WHAT ASTRONOMY AND ASTROLOGY ARE. I was making a point about obolete "sciences." Religious is obsolete "morality" just as alchemy and astrology are obsolete ideas about matter and nature.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 10:48 PM   #42
STYLE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu View Post
My God, you're a gigantic idiot.

1.) People do not need religion to do good things. Any charity done in the name of whatever god can easily be done out of sheer kindness. It's much less selfish than thinking you get a reward in the afterlife for it.

2.) I KNOW VERY FUCKING WELL WHAT ASTRONOMY AND ASTROLOGY ARE. I was making a point about obolete "sciences." Religious is obsolete "morality" just as alchemy and astrology are obsolete ideas about matter and nature.
wrong again!
1.) thats the point, very true on the selfishness point but how many people are not selfish in this day and time. even no-relig charities have to give something away like a discount on products, a ribbon, wristband, book, tshirt, even acknowledgment. its a rare soul thatt will give for the sake of giving. people DO need religion, they are not SUPPOSED to but they do. in a society there must be some consensus on what is law. all law has its roots in religious belief.

2.) i was not suggesting you didn't know the diff. i'm saying that astronomy and alchemy are good ways govern your life. do you even know what alchemy is? please explain. you'll find that science is headed right back into the direction of alchemy now. the prob is modern sci has removed conscious thought and will out of the equation. which will get you nowhere.

the human experience requires some science of life, some type of foundation. if not you are living like Aleister Crowley "do what you will".

Last edited by STYLE; 09-25-2007 at 10:51 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2007, 09:36 AM   #43
Cthulhu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 812
Rep Power: 10
Cthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkey
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STYLEMASTERR View Post
wrong again!
1.) thats the point, very true on the selfishness point but how many people are not selfish in this day and time. even no-relig charities have to give something away like a discount on products, a ribbon, wristband, book, tshirt, even acknowledgment. its a rare soul thatt will give for the sake of giving. people DO need religion, they are not SUPPOSED to but they do. in a society there must be some consensus on what is law. all law has its roots in religious belief.

2.) i was not suggesting you didn't know the diff. i'm saying that astronomy and alchemy are good ways govern your life. do you even know what alchemy is? please explain. you'll find that science is headed right back into the direction of alchemy now. the prob is modern sci has removed conscious thought and will out of the equation. which will get you nowhere.

the human experience requires some science of life, some type of foundation. if not you are living like Aleister Crowley "do what you will".
You're saying that currenlty people WANT or FEEL THAT THEY NEED religion for charitible acts. In reality, though, causes like Darfur, Jena 6, Myanmar, etc. have little to do with people's relgious beliefs, and more to do with outrage over human rights violations. People know they wouldn't want to be treated that way, so they naturally have an outcry. Sure religious groups might attempt to apply their doctrines to support for a cause, and it's an excellent way to instill support from a congregations. And sure, non-religious groups use flags, logos, etc. but this is all about awareness. You can tell a religiously rooted cause from a humanism rooted cause. For instance: you'll never find a secular organization protesting against stem cell research.

You keep using astronomy and astrology interchangeably. They are not the same thing. Astrology was the ancient practice of observing celestial bodies and applying them to religious and philosophical beliefs. Astronomy evolved out of that, but it now no longer has any supernatural beliefs attached to it.

And please, entertain me on this notion that chemistry is somehow reverting to alchemy. I'd really love to see how you could get such a notion.

The human experience requires NOTHING. All you have to do is live. Even Aleister Crowley had the human experience. Furthermore, I'm not a person with no values. I'm no nihilist. There are many causes I profess a belief in. I just don't use ancient books and bullshit supernatural explanations to back up my beliefs.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2007, 09:39 AM   #44
Cthulhu
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 812
Rep Power: 10
Cthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkeyCthulhu iron monkey
Default

Oh yeah, about laws. Laws may be rooted in religion, but values of communities were things that evolved through civilization. They weren't handed down by gods. They were only placed in a religious context because in those days religion and law were unseparated. Plus, items like the Ten Commandments have almost nothing to do with modern day law. The Code of Hammurabi actually has more weight today than that insipid list of desert morality.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2007, 02:27 AM   #45
CEITEDMOFO
DuncanHine Monument Cakes
 
CEITEDMOFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NEW JERUSALEM
Age: 33
Posts: 13,632
Rep Power: 78
CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)CEITEDMOFO Iron Lungs (Fists of Legend)
Default

Muslims , Christians,catholics All Worship The Sun, Muslims Worship The Moon Also, But The Morning Light Who People Call Jesus, Are Actually Worshiping Lucifer
__________________


CEITEDMOFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:32 PM.


Copyright 2000 - 2013 The Wu-Tang Corp. & shift-one