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Old 04-27-2011, 03:15 PM   #1
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Default Was the Balkan War in the 90s avoidable?

was outside influence the cause of the tensions between the emerging nations?

did the West make any tension between the already nationalistic rising nations worse?

could the whole thing have been avoided?

the whole situation has a lot of history and back story to it, and i have come to find it very intriguing these past few weeks

build. id like some more insights before i post my thoughts.
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:47 PM   #2
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no because serbs are a bunch of faggots who like to start shit. they always find a reason to fuck things up. and I lived in Yugoslavia during the war FYI so I know what I'm talking about
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:27 AM   #3
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Quote:
was outside influence the cause of the tensions between the emerging nations?

did the West make any tension between the already nationalistic rising nations worse?

could the whole thing have been avoided?

the whole situation has a lot of history and back story to it, and i have come to find it very intriguing these past few weeks

build. id like some more insights before i post my though

You must have in mind that it was also a result of 35 years of forced communism in yugoslavia.

It's a realy complicated question and i suggest you to go on your own and make conclusions by yourself. Search for different opinions and different sources, and don't succumb to individual subjective points of view.

And do not succumb to propaganda by western media about this war, because in the early 90's they choosed Serbia to be the main reason for outbrake of this war, what i think is not true. One thing i can tell you with certainty is that Serbia is being demonized as a nation through spinning by western media through the 90's, which was continued through Court in Haag which is in it's essence an anti serb insitution with few exceptions.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:11 AM   #4
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ya i have done my research and everything is subjective, so that is irrelevent. i just posted here for more opinions

but yes, i do think that most info we recieve is directed to make the Serbs look like the clear cut bad guys in the whole event. and yes i know yugoslavia was under commie rule, but they also werent so much involved as other Warsaw Pact countries. Tito was his own style of commie dictator and seemed to make it work. German influence grew more and more especially when the Wall came down.

@theheavens, if you were there, what made you think the Serbs were to blame? no disrespect as first hand accounts are helpful but they also tend to be one sided, still would like to here your side.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #5
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ever since that homo shot Ferdinand back in 1914, serbs have been the troublemakers in the Balkans. that "forced Communism" was approved by nearly everyone I lived with in Yugo, since president Tito was a fair and balanced man. everybody loved him, but there's always going to be some fags who disagree with him. that was one of the few times communism actually WORKED. there was no animosity, but serbs had to fuck shit up, of course. Commie Yugo was the only time you saw Catholics, Muslims and retarded orthodox getting along. but once again, serbs (disgusting orthodox) had to fuck shit up with their troublemaking ways.

when the war broke up, serbs were the first to create death camps and RAPE CAMPS, in which thousands upon thousands of non-serbs (particularly Muslim Bosnians) were tortured and raped. and for the record, it wasn't "ethnic cleansing" -- that's a bogus title! it was RELIGIOUS CLEANSING. the orthodox fags couldn't get along with anybody, and only valued their own primitive religion. read Goldhagen's book "Worse Than War" about genocide and you'll know what they did...as if there's not enough eye-account witnesses.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:13 PM   #6
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Yugoslavian wars started long before '90's.



Also, theheavens is ex-catholic who converted to Islam, he hates too much, so his opinion on Croats, Serbs and other Balkan peoples and their wars is irelevant.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:54 PM   #7
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:01 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
Yugoslavian wars started long before '90's.



Also, theheavens is ex-catholic who converted to Islam, he hates too much, so his opinion on Croats, Serbs and other Balkan peoples and their wars is irelevant.
I am Balkan
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:18 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
Yugoslavian wars started long before '90's.



Also, theheavens is ex-catholic who converted to Islam, he hates too much, so his opinion on Croats, Serbs and other Balkan peoples and their wars is irelevant.
realized both points haha

but what in the 90s particularly drove it to new echelons of violence?

was it the Wests intervention? or maybe it only seemed more turmultuous during the 90s due to media coverage?

its my personal belief that media plays a important and sometimes fatal or tragic role in conflicts/wars. the balance is easily swayed by false images and reports
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:59 AM   #10
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I am Balkan
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realized both points haha

but what in the 90s particularly drove it to new echelons of violence?

was it the Wests intervention? or maybe it only seemed more turmultuous during the 90s due to media coverage?

its my personal belief that media plays a important and sometimes fatal or tragic role in conflicts/wars. the balance is easily swayed by false images and reports
The advent of democracy made it easy. There was a nice, deep economic crisis around 1987-1991, if I'm correct it was a global one. Couple that with coming of multi-party elections and you're sure that faggots who are gonna blame all problems on Serbs/Croats/Slovenians/Albanians are gonna win the minds of the, obviously retarded, majority.

About what was the ultimate motive for waging the war, let's just mention that Tuđman and Milošević both became multimillionaires while regular people were getting killed all over the place.

Yes, it was avoidable.
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:08 AM   #11
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N.B. Yes, it was Serbs who started it all up (google SANU Memorandum, Kosovo protests and Yogurt revolution), but if it wasn't for that crazy old washed-up bastard Tuđman (basically a walking inferiority complex) and stupid half-Nazi islamic radical Izetbegović it wouln't have gotten nearly as ugly as it was. So they all share the blame.

The role of Europe in the whole game was, more or less, "see no evil hear no evil" (since every Euro state had it's own betting horse in the war), and American role was to let it last until it can, so that EU appears unable to solve problems in its own backyard.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:16 AM   #12
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^ thats what makes things a little more complicated. some many countries had a hand in lending aide to there side they wanted to win, so no one came out on top. good point about Izetbegovic, he really pushed for American and Iranian support, so much that he walked from negotiations and carried out the war (Bread Line Bombings).

Milosevic always is recognized as the villian in this all, but the other leaders were no saints. its easy to say the Serbs started it, but they were being forced of much of the land they occupied long before Croats and Bosnians.

but i do think the wars were avoidable, or at least they could have avoided the extent to which it rose too
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:49 AM   #13
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You got it all mixed up. It's another story if they were being provoked or not, but Serbs were actually the ones who started ethnic cleansing. (True though that Croats and Bosniaks followed the suit very quickly).

The things that went over most people's heads is that ethnic cleansing works both ways: the idea is to make a nationally homogene area. To achieve that, you need to expel other nationalities from the area that you want to have under your control - and do it in such a brutal way that would make your nationality members scared to live on areas outside your control. (Stupni Do massacre was a fine example on that at work; all sides did that at some point in the war).

Another thing that makes it complicated is that all sides in the war had a double chain of command - formally all units were under the command of respective general staffs, but in reality selected units (in essence paramilitaries in Serbia, military police in Croatia and mujahideen in Bosnia, but with loads of exceptions) fell under the command of local/national politicians. Those were the ones who were doing their dirty work, including massacres and ethnic cleansing.

Not to mention that course of the war was at least partially planned by all sides, as (in part secret) negotiations lasted from day one to the end. It was extremely complicated and dirty war, but we down here have a tradition of waging such wars. It's hard for us, who were involved in it, to understand what actually happened - no wonder it's hard for the world public.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:31 AM   #14
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All nations have their own theories, but these are historical facts:




Yugoslavia was established in 1918 (officially 1921) as a result of serbian victory over Austro-Hungarian empire (Serbs were on Allies' side). Kingdoms of Serbia and Montenegro were independent countries long before WW1, while Croats, Slovenians and bosnian muslims lived in parts of Turkish and Austro-Hungarian empires.

So, Serbs had practically liberated entire Balkan peninsula excluding Greece, Romania and Bulgaria, and they made Kingdom of Yugoslavia under serbian king. That country lasted until Hitler's campaign in 1941. Croats (catholics (religious factor is very important here)) and bosnian muslims sided with Hitler, while Serbs (orthodox christians) chose to fight on Allies's side once again. Certain amount of bosnian muslims and Croats fought against Hitler too btw.

During that war, Croats (with Pope's and Hitler's blessing) have annihilated about 700.000 Serbs and Jews in so called ''Independent State of Croatia''.




Out of all fronts during the WW2, Balkan wars were the most terrible.


But, luckily Hitler lost, and Yugoslavia was reestablished in 1945, only without serbian king who fled to England in 1941. Tito was a leader of that state. Tito was a Croat, even though Serbs (who were majority in Tito's army) and Russians liberated the Balkans once again.

Second Yugoslavia lasted until early '90's. Russia was/is an old Serbian ally, and that country was in serious crisis during the '90's, so Serbs in Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia and Montenegro stood alone, while bosnian muslims had Turkey, Saudi Arabia and practically entire Arab league (without Gadaffi who sided with Serbs). Croats were protected by USA, Germany (old ally), UK and France and their media, and ofc, Vatican.

There was/is hatred between these peoples, but the war was installed by the West and serbian defeat was inevitable because of their bad leadership and Russia's absence.

At the end of '90's, a new problem was caused by Albanians in southern serbian province of Kosovo (also known as Serbian Jerusalem). Serbs were stronger than Albanians, so NATO alliance bombed Serbia despite of Russian and Chinese 'veto' in UN.

Unfortunately, these wars are not over, they're paused.




Izetbegovic, Milosevic and Tudjman were just puppets.
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:48 AM   #15
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These are some of the points made in Memorandum of Serbian academy of science and arts in 1986 (taken from wiki), which discusses problems of Serbian people in Yugoslavia.


* Albanians are committing genocide against Serbs in Kosovo

* Slovenia and Croatia are taking control of the Serbian economy. Yugoslavia is taking industry out of Serbia

* There is need for constitutional changes of Yugoslavia because of its unfair mistreating and weakening of Serbia.

* There is great discrimination against Serbs that it is very similar to genocide

* Serbia has given 2 500 000 victims for Yugoslavia (in World War I and II) and now is victim of this state

* Between 1690 and 1912, 500 000 Serbs have escaped from Kosovo where Albanians are committing genocide

* There is great discrimination of Serbs living in Kosovo and in Croatia

* Serbs in Croatia are now in danger like never before

* All writers of Serb nationality from Bosnia are Serbs and not Bosnian writers

* Serbs' question won't be solved before creation of full national and cultural unity of Serb people without importance where they live

* During the last 50 years Serbs have been two time victims of destruction, assimilation, changing of religion, cultural genocide, ideological indoctrination and saying that they do not have any importance.

* If Yugoslavia falls, Serbia must look for its national interest
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