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Old 10-14-2011, 11:41 PM   #346
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Here's his reason for Gus walking out of the room, could have been done better though i think:


"From a practical standpoint—and I learned this from previous experience and previous seasons of Breaking Bad—it seemed to me that I’d better make this death as concrete as possible for the audience. Otherwise, there would be a large portion who couldn’t get their minds around it, who wouldn’t quite believe it if they didn’t see it with their own eyes. In other words, even if you saw the explosion and then you saw some pile of unrecognizable bodies afterward, there’d be folks who would never believe that Gus had been there, that he escaped at the last second and he’d be back next season. I kinda wanted to take that off the table. I’m tickled by that desire on the part of the audience to not believe what they see, because I think it comes from a very good place. I think it comes, in this case, from a desire that Gus Fring stay a part of the show. If, in other words, folks said, “We didn’t see him get blown up, so maybe he’s going to come back next year,” I think that’s a very positive desire or fantasy or wishful thinking on the part of the viewer, because they love the character so much. Having said that, I wanted to make it crystal clear that he had not survived."
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:36 AM   #347
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Tony killing his nephew? Tony constantly killing people for that matter, every season the constant theme of Tony having a false epiphany and then doing something idiotic/ horrific to further emphasise that he is sociopath who will never change?

All the characters in the Sopranos are one dimensional, you say there is a "deepness" to them, but what is that based on? None of them develop or change, they are essential the same characters for the entire show. The only character with any depth whatsoever is Chris, and eventually they manage to snuff any nuance out of his character by transforming him into someone who is exactly the same as Tony. I understand that this is the point of the Sopranos, but it is in no way "deep".

In Breaking Bad, within just one season, you see a change in pretty much all the characters based on what they are experiencing in the show. The change in their personalities is justified and subtle. Jesse doesn't just suddenly became a cold, heartless bastard. It takes 4 seasons of constant failure and tragedy for him to turn into the character which he becomes. Walt, Skyler, Hank all change significantly according to their experiences.

In the Sopranos, all the characters are impervious to the events which the show placers around them. It happens constantly with Tony. An event will take place which maybe changes his attitude for a couple of episodes, but once there is any pressure from another source, he is instantly transformed into his old sociopathic self. Throughout the course of the Sopranos, with all the shit that happens to Tony, and all the psychotherapy he goes through, his character barely changes from the first episode.

And no, you don't understand craft and subtlety in creating a TV show if you think surreal incidents like the ones you referred to render BB less subtle than the Sopranos. Each character in the Sopranos has a specific trait and personality which never changes and is reaffirmed incessantly to ram home a message. That is not subtlety. This kind of simplicity never occurs in BB, you can rarely predict the trajectory of a character throughout a season.
Now I'm wondering if you understood what the Sopranos was all about. The motto of the show is that people don't change. Pretending that some day things are going to be all rainbows and sunshine is the way most people waste their entire adult lives.

I find that BB is trying to be an answer, an echo, a continuation of some of the themes that the Sopranos introduced about human nature. One of the major themes of BB is "embrace who you are". Because you can't change it. All you can do is flail vainly against it.

Or you accept it. Even if it means accepting that you are the bad guy.

Tony Sopranos arc throughout the series is exactly that. In the end, he accepts who he is, and stops feeling guilty about being the bad guy. There is character development though, but the characters on the Sopranos aren't in a constant state of puberty.

I still think choosing the word 'subtle' was correct. English isn't my first language so I might have chosen a more accurate word if it was. The whole 747 down over ABQ thing was bizarre and by no means a subtle way of saying 'actions have consequences'. If Tony Soprano whacked the daughter of an air traffic controller and by proxy caused a plane to crash over Newark everyone would say Sopranos jumped the shark. Yet, if something similar happens on Breaking Bad it's acceptable.

I know you can't compare it like that, but I'm saying it to make clear how ridiculous that event is if you take it out of the context of Breaking Bad. But even in context of the show, it feels off. Over the top.


@ Dicky

Yeah if you read the interviews with David Chase you can see exactly how much thought was put into everything. And after watching all episodes of the first 5 seasons at least 2 times, some even more, I can see new layers showing exactly how well it was written.
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:58 AM   #348
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I know, I'm going to rewatch the whole series this winter. Its been a while and I only catch reruns here and there on A&E but they are edited.

I wanna catch all the little things I missed.



But the fact that Tony does not fully change to me, shows the realism of the show and the degenerative nature of most people.


HOw many times to people we know in our own lives suffer something tramatic, vow to change, do indeed change for a short period, but than run back to their own ways, much worse in alot of cases.

And since we are dealing with mobsters, it makes more sense, than them changing.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:03 AM   #349
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Now I'm wondering if you understood what the Sopranos was all about. The motto of the show is that people don't change. Pretending that some day things are going to be all rainbows and sunshine is the way most people waste their entire adult lives.

I find that BB is trying to be an answer, an echo, a continuation of some of the themes that the Sopranos introduced about human nature. One of the major themes of BB is "embrace who you are". Because you can't change it. All you can do is flail vainly against it.

Or you accept it. Even if it means accepting that you are the bad guy.

Tony Sopranos arc throughout the series is exactly that. In the end, he accepts who he is, and stops feeling guilty about being the bad guy. There is character development though, but the characters on the Sopranos aren't in a constant state of puberty.

I still think choosing the word 'subtle' was correct. English isn't my first language so I might have chosen a more accurate word if it was. The whole 747 down over ABQ thing was bizarre and by no means a subtle way of saying 'actions have consequences'. If Tony Soprano whacked the daughter of an air traffic controller and by proxy caused a plane to crash over Newark everyone would say Sopranos jumped the shark. Yet, if something similar happens on Breaking Bad it's acceptable.

I know you can't compare it like that, but I'm saying it to make clear how ridiculous that event is if you take it out of the context of Breaking Bad. But even in context of the show, it feels off. Over the top.


@ Dicky

Yeah if you read the interviews with David Chase you can see exactly how much thought was put into everything. And after watching all episodes of the first 5 seasons at least 2 times, some even more, I can see new layers showing exactly how well it was written.
I thought i made it pretty clear that i understand that the message of the Sopranos is that people don't change. If someone watches all 6 seasons and doesn't get this message (as it's reiterated hundreds of times) they need their head examined. This is why i find the Sopranos unsubtle, the way the story and themes are executed not whether they are realistic or not.

I do remember watching that season and thinking it was indeed ridiculous how that chain of events unfolded, but it doesn't mar the show for me in the same way that it does for you i guess. I don't watch TV shows as documentaries. Some events in Breaking Bad as vastly implausible, but they are none the less possible. I mean, the whole premise of the show is quite ridiculous, yet plausible, and i think you need to suspend disbelief from the get go with BB.

We both obviously enjoy both shows so not much point in arguing about our different opinions on them. My enjoyment of the Sopranos was probably diminished by watching every season in quick succession and finding some of the characters amazingly annoying (Janice and Tony's mother). And with Breaking Bad i haven't re watched any of it and i seen it over a longer period of time.

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Old 10-18-2011, 06:05 AM   #350
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And to add, i don't think i'd like to see 6 seasons of Breaking Bad either.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:00 PM   #351
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All series eventually hit bump...when the actors almost overplay their own characters. It probably happens less in dramatic shows, but I've noticed alot in comedies. Seinfeld was a good example of this.

I'm not sure if its the actors fault, or the writers. Probably its almost fully falls on the writer.
Or its possible that the viewer's own perception of the character changes as time goes on. They get sick of the character once everything is revealed about them.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:25 AM   #352
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It's funny that Walt is a great chemist, but the chemistry in his relationships is horrible.
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Old 10-24-2011, 03:06 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by DickyTouch View Post
All series eventually hit bump...when the actors almost overplay their own characters. It probably happens less in dramatic shows, but I've noticed alot in comedies. Seinfeld was a good example of this.

I'm not sure if its the actors fault, or the writers. Probably its almost fully falls on the writer.
Or its possible that the viewer's own perception of the character changes as time goes on. They get sick of the character once everything is revealed about them.
Yeah, i guess with Seinfeld the show went for so long it was inevitable. The nature of the show kind of changed also, in the last couple of seasons it become more and more ridiculous. I still enjoy those later seasons, but the show is noticeably different.
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Old 10-24-2011, 07:24 PM   #354
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it became much more slapstick later, but that was mainly the result of Larry David leaving the show as a writer.

They were still great, but the earlier ones were genius.
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:10 PM   #355
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just finished watching and all i could say was "holy fuck." the last two-three episodes had me on edge the whole time. heart racing like a motherfucker.
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Old 01-02-2012, 10:59 PM   #356
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I'm on the 4th season right now. One of the better shows I've discovered. It's gonna suck waiting for the next season of this & Mad Men to be filmed. Nothing else really compares.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:05 PM   #357
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wait wat? i thought the fourth season was the last ^
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #358
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i assumed another one was coming. guess not.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #359
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its said that the 5th season will be the last, but i refuse to believe it. why ruin a good thing. if walt goes to prison, then you make the show about him in prison. if he dies, then you make the show about him in hell.
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Old 01-03-2012, 12:23 AM   #360
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walt in hell.......hmmmmmm

and he meets up with gus and the others he killed along the way.

but for real, i hope season 5 gives us a ending that will make this show go down with the wire as one of the greatest crime dramas of all time.
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