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Old 06-09-2008, 08:53 PM   #1
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Default True Islam Responds to Sunni Challenge

Recently, members of the Orthodox Muslim community posted a challenge to debate the Five Percent in our guest book. They subsequently emailed me with a personal challenge to debate on the teachings of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and their place in Islam. I accepted the challenge. On October 14, we received their first efforts in this debate which actually began earlier this year with myself and Brother Dawood. This effort is posted at the end of this build. This is my first response to the challenge.
Firstly, I would like to thank brother David Muhammad and the "Sunna Team" for the challenge and the opportunity to perfect Allah’s Light at the expense of the disbelievers. I also thank brother Aboo Sumayyah Anwar Dupuis for his words and for setting it off. However, I do wish, brother Aboo, that you did a little more (actually a lot more) homework. Your challenge to us was based on a critique of articles you found on the NGE website, such as "Why We are not Muslim" (See footnote #9). If you would have prepared a bit more (knowledge before you wisdom), you would have known that the philosophy and ideology of the individuals responsible for that literature is as anathema to us (The Allah Team) as they are to you and as you and your ideology is to us. In other words, as far as we are concerned, both of you are disbelievers and both of you are companions of our hellfire. Thus, to challenge us on the basis of your critique of their material was an exercise in futility. You would have fared better by posting those words on their website. You would have met with a less formidable opponent and therefore had a better shot at success. Oh well.
There are, however, a few points raised which I would like to address. You begin by dismissing the claim made by the NGE, the Five Percent, the NOI, and all knowledgeable persons that "black people are the original people of the planet earth." This, you say, is un-Islamic:
A Muslim doesn’t care about such issues due to the statement of the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) saying, "All of you are descendants of Aadam and Aadam came from dirt." And Allah says in his Noble Book what means: "O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you in the Sight of Allah is the believer who has the most piety. Verily Allah is All Knowing-Powerful."
Oh Allah! How glaringly self-defeating you are in this. To suggests that Muslims don’t care that Black People are the Original People by quoting the Qur’anic affirmation that all men descend from Adam is deceptive. The same Qur’an affirms that that same Adam was Black!
26. And surely We created man of sounding clay, of BLACK MUD (hama) fashioned into shape…
28. So when thy Lord said to the Angels: I am going to create a mortal of sounding clay, of Black Mud fashioned into
shape.
29. So when I have made him complete and breathed into him of My spirit, FALL DOWN MAKING OBESIANCE TO HIM. (15:26-29)
Not only is the original man made from black mud (hama), he is made "complete" by the Breath of Allah after which the angels are ordered to "fall down and make obeisance (sajada)" to him. At the same time the Holy Qur’an says "And to Allah makes obeisance EVERY LIVING CREATURE that is in the heavens and the earth, AND THE ANGELS TOO…(16:49)" And also, "Whoever is in the heavens and the earth makes obeisance to ALLAH ONLY, willingly or unwillingly. (13:15)." How do you rectify Allah’s commandment to the angels to fall down making obeisance to this Original Black Man while at the same time He affirms that everyone, including the angels, makes obeisance to NONE BUT ALLAH? The Black material body made from mud is but the material conveyer which Allah uses to convey His Spirit to the material world. Just as the inferior copper brown wire is used to transmit the superior electric charge, so does the Black material body transmit the Supreme Spirit/Mind of Allah Ta’ala.
For you brother Aboo to forward such an argument means either you don’t know the Qur’an, making you guilty of that which you accuse us of ("If those who did not have knowledge remained silent, then there would be know disagreement."), or you know the Qur’an, know that it teaches Adam to be made of Black Mud, but are guilty of the most blatant attempt at deception, making you Al-Kadhdhhaab (The Liar).
It is an anthropological, archeological, biological, and historical fact that the first human beings to ever walk the earth were Black. Semitic Arabs today don’t care about such issues because, well, they were not first. In fact, they were last. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) however, had no problem accepting this truth. Thus, he said of his Black Companion Bilal, "O Bilal, I saw as if I entered Paradise and found you there already." (Muhammad Abdul-Rauf, Bilal, p. 73) Bilal was a former slave who became a companion. Why would the Holy Prophet, who was taught the Holy Qur’an by "One Mighty in Power" with no intermediary, who was allowed on the Night of Ascent to ascend Allah’s Sevens Heavens and bask in His Presence, why would he enter Paradise on the heels of this Black ex-slave? Because his people (Semitic Arabs) not only entered into existence on the heels of Bilal’s people, but entered Islam on the heels of Black people as well. Oh yes. Semitic Arabs didn’t teach Black people Islam. Black people taught the Semitic Arabs Islam. We established the worship of Allah Wa ‘ta’ala in ancient Arabia thousands of years before the first Semite was born. Scholars have conclusively shown that the entire Middle East, Arabia in particular, was originally populated by Black People. The native and indigenous Arabians are Black. (See Sertima, 1988;Reynolds, 1988; Houston, 1926; Baldwin, 1869; Higgins, 1836). Runoko Rashidi, in his "Africans in Early Asian Civilizations: A Historical Review," notes:
The Arabia Peninsula, first populated over 8,000 years ago, was, like much of Asia, initially populated by Black people. Their descendants can still be found…in the peninsula’s southern extremities. Generally classified as Veddoids by anthropologists, these Blacks today form numerically significant portions of the regions Africoid Mahra population. (Rashidi, 1988, pp. 22-3)
French archeologists Françoise Lenormant, in the 19th century (1837-1883) acknowledged the same. He says in his two volume Ancient History of the East:
We may perceive the remembrance of a powerful empire founded by the Cushites in very early ages, apparently including the whole of Arabia Felix, and not only in Yemen proper. (p. 296)
It was these indigenous Black Arabians who were the first worshippers of Allah. Samual M. Zwemer, in his The Moslem Doctrine of God notes:
But history establishes beyond a shadow of doubt the even the pagan Arabs, before Muhammad’s time, knew their chief god by the name of Allah, and even in a sense proclaimed his unity. In pre-Islamic literature…’ilah’ is used for any god and Al-ilah, contracted to Allah…was the name of the Supreme….As final proof, we have the fact
that centuries before Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, or Temple at Mecca, was called Beit-Allah, the House of God. (pp. 24-26)
The Kaaba, or Beit-Allah (House of Allah) goes back to ancient antiquity (some say 6,000 years) when none but Blacks peopled Arabia (Baldwin, 1869). Philip Hitti, in his exhaustive History of the Arabs, notes as well:
Allah…was…the principle deity of Makkah. The name is an ancient one. It occurs in two south Arabic inscriptions…but abounds in the form HLH in the Lihyanite inscriptions of the fifth century b.c.. Lihyan, who evidently got the god from Syria, was the first center of the worship of this deity in Arabia. The name occurs as Hallah in the Safa inscriptions five centuries before Islam...(p.100)
The Lhyanites were a division of the ancient tribe of Hudhayl in the northern vicinity of Mecca and Ta’if who originated in Yemen, southern Arabia. The Encyclopedia of Islam says of them: “Their skins were black and shinning; their looks…were not hollow but round and teeming.” ("Hudhal," p. 540) These Blacks worshipped Allah 1,000 years before the Semites of Arabia. We worshipped Him in northern as well as southern Arabia. What is most important is we worshipped Him as a BLACK STORM DIETY. (Baldick, 1997). In Yemen, He was Allah Muqa, "The God who Waters Intensively. (Ibid., p. 25-6). (In my book, The Book of God, I have shown how the Black Storm God called Allah in ancient Arabia became the One God of the Qur’an and the Holy Prophet.)
The Holy Prophet knew his people owed their understanding of Allah and Islam to the native Blacks that coexisted with him in Arabia and ultimately erupted with him and spread Islam to the known world. This is why he warned his Semitic brethren to accept guidance, even if it comes from one whose skin is black and hair like dried raisins. It would be Black people who will, in the Last Days, guide the Arab World back to the mustakin or Straight Path. We are not indebted to the Semitic Arabs for Islam. They are indebted to us.
You try next to argue, using select Qur’an verses, that Allah is not a human being. Because Allah is here described as "The Self-Sufficient" and the "Ever-Living One," you maintain:
Could this possibly refer to a human being? Are people not dependent on each other? Do people not depend on oxygen to breath?
This, brother Aboo, is the difference between Allah Ta‘ala and man in his current, degraded and deprived state. Allah is a Man who is Self Sufficient, being Supreme in Knowledge, Power, and Holiness. Allah Ta’ala has the form of a man, the look of a man, but is different from man in his current state. What! You deny such? Then you deny the God of Prophet Muhammad. He saw his Lord, the Self-Sufficient One, in a vision, as reported by Ibn Abbas (Isnad sahih: Qatada (d.735)-Ikrima (d. 723)- Ibn Abass) and confirmed by K’ab al-Ahbar (d. 652) as a human being. Muhammad said, "I saw my Lord, in a dream, in a most beautiful form, a youth with rich hair, His feet in green, with two shoes of gold, on His face carpet of gold." This Vision of Allah was confirmed by some of the most important members of the Sahabba (Companions) and the Tabieen (Successors). Urwah ibn az-Zubair (d. 711), Al-Hasan al-Bashri (d. 740), Az-Zuhri (d. 742), among others, all confirmed this Vision. Allah, the Lord of All the Worlds, The Self Sufficient One, Who Neither sleeps Nor slumbers, Who begets not, nor was begotten, Who is All-Knowing and Unlike Anything, appeared to the Prophet in a dream in human form. (For a full discussion of this Vision, see The Great Debate Part II).
You make a curiously comical statement:
The reason Islam represents a threat to America is a socioeconomic one. The Muslim is forbidden from paying or accepting interest, this is a huge threat to the banks, who are based upon a system of interest Also, Islam recognizes that only the Sharee’ah (Islamic Law) can rule and govern man’s affairs-this represents a threat to democracy…. Islam is a complete "Deen" (system of life) which is too strong to be contained or confined by such consumer/materialistic based socioeconomic system that the very blending of the
two ways of life result in an explosion in the numbers of people who choose to become Muslims and prefer that system of life over their own society.
With this I must take a temporary leave of my academic voice to say, quit frankly, this is a crock of shit. Muslims who have come from the East have put the Holy Qur’an and the Sunna of the Prophet in the closet and completely assimilated to Western merchant morals. This is why, even though the Qur’an forbids the consumption of Pork, deems it an abominable animal not even to be touched, yet Arab Muslim merchants sell this divinely prohibited flesh to Blacks in every one of their stores in our community. Allah forbids the consumption of alcohol saying that the negative effects of it outweigh the good. Yet this doesn’t hinder Arab Muslim merchants from selling liquor to Blacks. And you have the nerve to suggest that the "spreading of Islam in North America," particularly in the Black Community, is do to so-called Orthodox Muslims. Like Hell. Muslims from the East do no missionary work in the hood. Your interest is in converting white people. Your business in the Black Community of pushing that which Allah has forbidden. When it comes to the "consumer/materialistic based socioeconomic system" Arab Muslim merchants say to hell with Qur’an, to hell with Sunna, to hell with "niggas."
In conclusion, I have only addressed those arguments which I felt were relevant. Much it simply wasn’t. The use of acronyms in religious language and the religious sanction (or lack thereof) of hip-hop are at best marginally relevant, at worst desperately trivial. In any case, it is of absolutely no significance to the Aqidah which we, the Five Percent in this poor part of the planet earth, stand upon: Man is God and God is a Man-a Black Man.
Peace.
True Islam.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:23 PM   #2
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the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.
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Old 06-10-2008, 09:27 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by HAN View Post
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.
Somebody got bombed.
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by HAN View Post
the ending of the article jus proves that the NOI or watever they are not only have a thing against white ppl, but are now starting shit against the arabs to.

this is why this sect will never even be taken seriously by anyone who lives on the other side of the atlantic.
if u truly understood the issue here, you wouldn't say this.

true wisdom, Mic
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:32 PM   #5
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People come to believe what they want based on their outlook, experience or what their elders did, and I don't believe any amount of arguementation will make them abandon that belief ( especially when it is not based on fact).

To each his own way.
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Originally Posted by Sky Blue Danny Kid View Post
Ahh, the numerical mythology of the homosexual african-canadian wu-tang fan is truly strange and wondrous.

What a unique people.





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Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:12 PM   #6
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bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -

Quote:
Semitic Arabs didn’t teach Black people Islam.
they think that Islam began with Muhammad

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

and what "color" was he ?

Quote:
Scholars have conclusively shown that the entire Middle East, Arabia in particular, was originally populated by Black People. The native and indigenous Arabians are Black.
True words
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -



they think that Islam began with Muhammad

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

and what "color" was he ?



True words
No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:20 PM   #8
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No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
how do u know? where did he get his knowledge from?
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:58 PM   #9
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Somebody got bombed.
your white, and you wish you were from Jerusalem, cause of wu-tang.
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Old 06-10-2008, 05:02 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship


can u speak on that some more?
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
bowing down to a rock in a building at specific sun positions is not Islam - that is pagan worship -

TRU. Have u heard of the online book ( it might not be online cuz the last time I checked it was gone but I got it on microsoft word) Arab Conspiracies Against Islam?

The worship of the rock at the kabaa has more to do with hinduism, some say.

they think that Islam began with Muhammad

They are wrong.

when it is clear in the Quaran that the Quaran is a confirmation of the bible

TRU. A confimation and completion.

who taught Muhammad and what was the religion of this person who taught Muhammad ?

Muhammad followed the religion of Abraham - monotheism. In the Quran, Abraham is said to be an excellent example for muslims to follow. Abraham is mentioned many many many more times in the Quran than Muhammad.

and what "color" was he ?

Which one? If your talking about Abraham, most likely Black cuz the ancient inhabitants of the region Iraq where he was from was black.

As for Muhammad, I'm not sure.

True words
.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
I personally find FMJ's approach to message boarding hilarious, considering we've got a lot of people here who often overcompensate for being heterosexual.

The one's who
lose it over his soft, gay care-free posts are suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Blue Danny Kid View Post
Ahh, the numerical mythology of the homosexual african-canadian wu-tang fan is truly strange and wondrous.

What a unique people.





Quote:
Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!
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Old 06-10-2008, 08:42 PM   #12
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Kabaa a hindu temple?:

http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
I personally find FMJ's approach to message boarding hilarious, considering we've got a lot of people here who often overcompensate for being heterosexual.

The one's who
lose it over his soft, gay care-free posts are suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Blue Danny Kid View Post
Ahh, the numerical mythology of the homosexual african-canadian wu-tang fan is truly strange and wondrous.

What a unique people.





Quote:
Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:06 AM   #13
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how did worshipping the kaaba become a muslim tradition?
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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I don't know for sure. Most 'muslims' either follow hadith - traditions that are attributed to Muhammad 250-300 yrs after his physical death which are not reliable and mostly contradict the Quran, Or they misinterperet the Quran.

So my guess is 'muslims' did one of the two or both after he left.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
I personally find FMJ's approach to message boarding hilarious, considering we've got a lot of people here who often overcompensate for being heterosexual.

The one's who
lose it over his soft, gay care-free posts are suspect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky Blue Danny Kid View Post
Ahh, the numerical mythology of the homosexual african-canadian wu-tang fan is truly strange and wondrous.

What a unique people.





Quote:
Believe it or not, lobster and crabs are crustaceans and are a part of the arthropod family, which include caterpillars, cockroaches, and spiders!

Last edited by diggy; 06-11-2008 at 07:16 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by CeeDot View Post
No person taught Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
ok - you don't want to call the Angel Jabril a person -
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