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Old 07-26-2009, 05:40 PM   #16
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yo sunny ... i have at least shown y'all respect by asking about the NOI before hating on them, cuz i don't believe that i have enough knowledge on them to be able to do so...but you gotta show me respect and actually answer my original questions, otherwise i'l likely just fall into the category of people who hate on them despite not having any real facts to base my hate upon

i can look on the internet and find a whole lot of condradicting shit, the chances of me finding a member of NOI where i live is extremely low, which is why i am asking you to explain the basic beliefs of the NOI. If you want i can google them, read up on all the shit that gets posted over the internet and just believe everything that i read, but that would make me an ignorant muthafucka...so can you please just explain their basic beliefs so that i can come to my own conclusions and opinions about them?
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:18 PM   #17
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otherwise i'l likely just fall into the category of people who hate on them despite not having any real facts to base my hate upon
lol....why don't you have any control over that? You just hate things that you don't have any real facts on?
and he recommended books - why not go straight to the source if you are truly interested?
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:28 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mumm Ra View Post
lol....why don't you have any control over that? You just hate things that you don't have any real facts on?
and he recommended books - why not go straight to the source if you are truly interested?
no i would hate on them from the things that my freinds tell me about them and the shit i read up about them on the internet, which is not the most reliable source of info,

and where the fuck am i gonna get books? there ent a library anywhere near me...i just wanted someone who has knowledge on the NOI to explain their basic beliefs to me, just like i did to my muslim freinds who asked me about christianity, we discussed our religions like adults and noted any simillarities between them etc, its ayt tho, now i see that this was a waste of my time, if y'all ent gonna answer me just close the fucking thread
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:36 PM   #19
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I'm assuming you have the internet
did you know you can purchase all kinds of things from it? Including books.

I personally haven't read up on any NOI books - but you are just not being very smart.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by NickyTooch View Post
DZA....honestly..dont waste your time here. Read up on it for yourself, and make your own decision.

It really doesnt matter what they thing because if you aint with them your against them. Well, yea, its like that with alot of groups, particularly religious and political ones.

But it matters not. You have your own mind and can make determinations for yourself.
yeah you right ... ima have to try n find a reliable source of the internet and just go from there

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Originally Posted by Mumm Ra View Post
I'm assuming you have the internet
did you know you can purchase all kinds of things from it? Including books.

I personally haven't read up on any NOI books - but you are just not being very smart.
1. i have 45kbps dial up, no-one in my house has a credit card at the moment (some fucking pricks got all the cards details)

2. 'did you know you can purchase all kinds of things from it? Including books' - this doesn't help anyone, i dont know who the fuck you think you are but speaking to me like i'm a 4 year old kid is just retarded on your part

but yeah, i will try my best to somehow get hold of these books as i'm clearly not getting anywhere by asking questions...
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:54 PM   #21
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yeah you right ... ima have to try n find a reliable source of the internet and just go from there



1. i have 45kbps dial up, no-one in my house has a credit card at the moment (some fucking pricks got all the cards details)

2. 'did you know you can purchase all kinds of things from it? Including books' - this doesn't help anyone, i dont know who the fuck you think you are but speaking to me like i'm a 4 year old kid is just retarded on your part

but yeah, i will try my best to somehow get hold of these books as i'm clearly not getting anywhere by asking questions...
even if someone on this forum told you - how could you be sure that's the truth?
if you go around asking christians about their beliefs you'd probably get some different stories based on who you ask.
what I was trying to get at is go to the source - the books that hold some of the teachings the NOI follow - and if you don't have access then don't complain or hate until you have the knowledge for yourself.
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by theDZA View Post
yo sunny ... i have at least shown y'all respect by asking about the NOI before hating on them, cuz i don't believe that i have enough knowledge on them to be able to do so...but you gotta show me respect and actually answer my original questions, otherwise i'l likely just fall into the category of people who hate on them despite not having any real facts to base my hate upon

and what would that make you ?

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Originally Posted by theDZA View Post
i can look on the internet and find a whole lot of condradicting shit, the chances of me finding a member of NOI where i live is extremely low, which is why i am asking you to explain the basic beliefs of the NOI. If you want i can google them, read up on all the shit that gets posted over the internet and just believe everything that i read, but that would make me an ignorant muthafucka...so can you please just explain their basic beliefs so that i can come to my own conclusions and opinions about them?
you answered your question -

you want to know the basic beliefs of the Muslims in the West - ok

again - if you want to know about the NOI, read A Message to The Black Man in America - start there - then we can build further on what you have read - if that's too much for you, then you do not sincerely want to know -

what you do want is me to confirm what you were told - -

go here >

http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15923

and read what i believe - what i gathered from the teachings - all i can give you is what i see - if you want to see and understand the NOI, read from the source -
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Old 07-26-2009, 06:58 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Mumm Ra View Post
even if someone on this forum told you - how could you be sure that's the truth?
if you go around asking christians about their beliefs you'd probably get some different stories based on who you ask.
what I was trying to get at is go to the source - the books that hold some of the teachings the NOI follow - and if you don't have access then don't complain or hate until you have the knowledge for yourself.
firstly ... thankyou for not talking to me like i'm a retard, i didn't appreciate that shit

so can someone please reccomend the books that i need to read in order to get an understanding of NOI?
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:02 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
and what would that make you ?



you answered your question -

you want to know the basic beliefs of the Muslims in the West - ok

again - if you want to know about the NOI, read A Message to The Black Man in America - start there - then we can build further on what you have read - if that's too much for you, then you do not sincerely want to know -

what you do want is me to confirm what you were told - -
ima be honest tho i don't like the way you speak to people...as if you speaking down to them

but

you did actually reccomend a book so ...i'l try and find that book somewhere, is there any more or just 'A Message to The Black Man in America' ?
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:03 PM   #25
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ur better off going to beliefnet or some shit cuz u won't find what your looking for here
k, thanks i'l check it out

but i'l try n get some of the books as well

thanks for the link SUNNY - ima check it out now
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:10 PM   #26
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ima be honest tho i don't like the way you speak to people...as if you speaking down to them

but

i'm not speaking down to anyone - people are just sensitive


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Originally Posted by theDZA View Post
you did actually reccomend a book so ...i'l try and find that book somewhere, is there any more or just 'A Message to The Black Man in America' ?
i offered a link to a thread that dealt with some of the beliefs you are looking to find out about - if you want a confirmation from me saying that the NOI hates white people, then you will not get that from me - hating white people will get me no where -


these three books - start in this order











After you read the first one, let me know - then we can build on what you may see as unfair or fair -
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:13 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
i'm not speaking down to anyone - people are just sensitive




i offered a link to a thread that dealt with some of the beliefs you are looking to find out about - if you want a confirmation from me saying that the NOI hates white people, then you will not get that from me - hating white people will get me no where -


these three books - start in this order











After you read the first one, let me know - then we can build on what you may see as unfair or fair -
ok...soz for gettin a bit heated, but all i read from the internet (including some threads on here) was about how they hate white people etc, it may take me a while to get the book but when i do i will make sure i speak to you about my views on it.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:24 PM   #28
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ok...soz for gettin a bit heated, but all i read from the internet (including some threads on here) was about how they hate white people etc, it may take me a while to get the book but when i do i will make sure i speak to you about my views on it.

listen man - about white people - when we go through the history of white people and the impact they have had on others across this globe, allot of white people feel guilty and feel that we should hate them because of what they as a group has done - Hatred breeds murder and chaos - skinheads, nazis,kkk, they hate black people - they express their hatred by killing us - burnings,dragging,lynchings, etc....

black people express their hatred toward black people by killing other black people -
we were lied to about our origins, and place on this earth - the NOI restores the Black man -

the white supremest teachings have destroyed the minds of black people all over the world - and it has also destroyed the minds of white people all over the world - its the false teachings of white supremacy that is the target, not white people as individuals - but white individuals who want to continue to benefit in a system that was designed to put them on top of every race and culture, will fight and lie about the NOI - if you can understand the condition that black people in america are left in due to oppression and white supremest teachings, then you can understand why there is a need for the NOI
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:28 PM   #29
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sunny do you agree with these beliefs



This is the question asked most frequently by both the whites and the blacks. The answers to this question I shall state as simply as possible.

1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.

3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.

Since we cannot get along with them in peace and equality, after giving them 400 years of our sweat and blood and receiving in return some of the worst treatment human beings have ever experienced, we believe our contributions to this land and the suffering forced upon us by white America, justifies our demand for complete separation in a state or territory of our own.

5. We want freedom for all Believers of Islam now held in federal prisons. We want freedom for all black men and women now under death sentence in innumerable prisons in the North as well as the South. We want every black man and woman to have the freedom to accept or reject being separated from the slave master's children and establish a land of their own.

We know that the above plan for the solution of the black and white conflict is the best and only answer to the problem between two people.

6. We want an immediate end to the police brutality and mob attacks against the so-called Negro throughout the United States. We believe that the Federal government should intercede to see that black men and women tried in white courts receive justice in accordance with the laws of the land--or allow us to build a new nation for ourselves, dedicated to justice, freedom and liberty.

7. As long as we are not allowed to establish a state or territory of our own, we demand not only equal justice under the laws of the United States, but equal employment opportunities--NOW!


We do not believe that after 400 years of free or nearly free labor, sweat and blood, which has helped America become rich and powerful, so many thousands of black people should have to subsist on relief or charity or live in poor houses.

8. We want the government of the United States to exempt our people from ALL taxation as long as we are deprived of equal justice under the laws of the land.

9. We want equal education--but separate schools up to 16 for boys and 18 for girls on the condition that the girls be sent to women's colleges and universities. We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teachers. Under such schooling system we believe we will make a better nation of people. The United States government should provide, free, all necessary text books and equipment, schools and college buildings. The Muslim teachers shall be left free to teach and train their people in the way of righteousness, decency and self respect.

10. We believe that intermarriage or race mixing should be prohibited. We want the religion of Islam taught without hindrance or suppression.




What The Muslims Believe


1. WE BELIEVE In the One God whose proper Name is Allah.

2. WE BELIEVE in the Holy Qur'an and in the Scriptures of all the Prophets of God.

3. WE BELIEVE in the truth of the Bible, but we believe that it has been tampered with and must be reinterpreted so that mankind will not be snared by the falsehoods that have been added to it.

4. WE BELIEVE in Allah's Prophets and the Scriptures they brought to the people.

5. WE BELIEVE in the the resurrection of the dead--not in physical resurrection--but in mental resurrection. We believe that the so-called Negroes are most in need of mental resurrection; therefore they will be resurrected first. Furthermore, we believe we are the people of God's choice, as it has been written, that God would choose the rejected and the despised. We can find no other persons fitting this description in these last days more that the so-called Negroes in America. We believe in the resurrection of the righteous.

6. WE BELIEVE in the judgment; we believe this first judgment will take place as God revealed, in America...

7. WE BELIEVE this is the time in history for the separation of the so-called Negroes and the so-called white Americans. We believe the black man should be freed in name as well as in fact. By this we mean that he should be freed from the names imposed upon him by his former slave masters. Names which identified him as being the slave master's slave. We believe that if we are free indeed, we should go in our own people's names--the black people of the Earth.

8. WE BELIEVE in justice for all, whether in God or not; we believe as others, that we are due equal justice as human beings. We believe in equality--as a nation--of equals. We do not believe that we are equal with our slave masters in the status of "freed slaves."

We recognize and respect American citizens as independent peoples and we respect their laws which govern this nation.

9. WE BELIEVE that the offer of integration is hypocritical and is made by those who are trying to deceive the black peoples into believing that their 400-year-old open enemies of freedom, justice and equality are, all of a sudden, their "friends." Furthermore, we believe that such deception is intended to prevent black people from realizing that the time in history has arrived for the separation from the whites of this nation.


If the white people are truthful about their professed friendship toward the so-called Negro, they can prove it by dividing up America with their slaves. We do not believe that America will ever be able to furnish enough jobs for her own millions of unemployed, in addition to jobs for the 20,000,000 black people as well.

10. WE BELIEVE that we who declare ourselves to be righteous Muslims, should not participate in wars which take the lives of humans. We do not believe this nation should force us to take part in such wars, for we have nothing to gain from it unless America agrees to give us the necessary territory wherein we may have something to fight for.

11. WE BELIEVE our women should be respected and protected as the women of other nationalities are respected and protected.

12. WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims.


We believe further and lastly that Allah is God and besides HIM there is no god and He will bring about a universal government of peace wherein we all can live in peace together.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS View Post
listen man - about white people - when we go through the history of white people and the impact they have had on others across this globe, allot of white people feel guilty and feel that we should hate them because of what they as a group has done - Hatred breeds murder and chaos - skinheads, nazis,kkk, they hate black people - they express their hatred by killing us - burnings,dragging,lynchings, etc....

black people express their hatred toward black people by killing other black people -
we were lied to about our origins, and place on this earth - the NOI restores the Black man -

the white supremest teachings have destroyed the minds of black people all over the world - and it has also destroyed the minds of white people all over the world - its the false teachings of white supremacy that is the target, not white people as individuals - but white individuals who want to continue to benefit in a system that was designed to put them on top of every race and culture, will fight and lie about the NOI - if you can understand the condition that black people in america are left in due to oppression and white supremest teachings, then you can understand why there is a need for the NOI
agreed.

good post.
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