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Old 08-05-2009, 09:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz View Post
First of all, all that quote symbolises, is the opinion of someone who has never walked the path of enlightenment and has more than likely judged all religion based upon the actions of those who use it for control, which is a small minority compared to those who DO try to live righteously.

His argument, for all of it's bells, whistles and seemingly, "deep" insight, is just as weak as any other atheist's arguement that I've seen thusfar.
Actually the author has visited the "holy" land and spoke to numerous religious followers in doing so; and he's agnostic (an atheist with no balls).
As for the majority not using it for control, i strongly disagree. Even if they're not the ones doing the controlling, they are being controlled. There are numerous counts of faith getting in the way of logic. Such as a mother killing her children and saying "God told me to do so."
Or how about those who believe some bible stories to be literal/true, such as Jonah & The Whale (or "big fish") as well as Adam & Eve.
Those of us with common sense know neither of which are possible.
First off a man can't survive in a big fish's stomach, he'd be chewed up first (if we're talking a predator of a big fish) and if he was swallowed whole his bones would probably be crushed, skin melted off through stomach acid and such, and his body would become fish excrement.
As for A&E, if we all came from that much inbreeding there wouldn't be nearly as many races/ethnicities and there'd be far more mental disorders.

I myself was raised catholic, and i think the christian faith is nothing short of ridiculous. If we're only speaking of Christ and not the religion that followed, I believe he was an ideal human being. Not the mesiah, but someone we should aspire to be like (peaceful, forgiving, happy). Unfortunately there are COUNTLESS christians who are also prejudice. Whether that be towards those who follow other religions, don't believe in god, or sometimes just straight up racist. Going from the positive image of Christ, only the minority of Christians are actually Christ-like.

More people have been killed in the name of God/Religion than anything else.

I have nothing against those who are spiritual, however religious fundamentalism will doom our society to the apocalypse/"judgement day" that so many of these religious folks are contempt with. If one is so contempt with the end of humanity they are only enabling it to occur. Many of these people have political power as well, meaning that judgement day they speak of, they can help start. Nuclear fallout is actually a possibility with these people. That is something I just won't stand for.

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Old 08-05-2009, 12:32 PM   #17
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what i see is a group of people disillusioned with religion.(rightfully so)
atheism is a disbelief in a creator/higherpower/god.

its like not believing in plaque because you had a horrible dentist.
(no lacey)
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by James Crow ESQ;1644503[COLOR=DarkOrange

atheism is a disbelief in a creator/higherpower/god.
[/COLOR]
I think this is wrong, and i can say so because I am an atheist. Atheism can be a broad spectrum of things, from simply not believing that deities exist, to certain sects of Buddism that don't believe in Gods but are still religious, to an outright rejection of classical theological teaching due to lack of empirical evidence, but still believing in a higher power. In early AD, Romans accused the Christians of being atheists for not believing in Pagan deities. It's such a broad term, that trying to isolate it by giving it a convenient definition is nearly impossible, for just as there are many types of theists, so there are many different types of atheists. Not everybody who is an atheist is Bill Mauer.
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:36 PM   #19
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atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities
???
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:38 PM   #20
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are there atheists that reject religion but accept the existence of God?
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:58 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by James Crow ESQ View Post
are there atheists that reject religion but accept the existence of God?
Yes, it's just a difference of logical perspective...where some atheists say they don't believe in a deity because it can't be proven, some say they do believe in a higher power because it can't be dis proven, but at the same time reject all versions of organized religion because their views are unprovable.
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:26 PM   #22
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isn't there another name for that though? people who believe in a god/higher power that doesn't interfere with human life? is it deist?
i forget how to spell it.
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:49 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by DrBold241 View Post
"My atheism leaps to life when private belief becomes a public matter, when in the name of a personal mental pathology we organize a world for others. For between personal existensial anguish and management of the body and soul of our fellow human beings, there exists a whole world in which those who profit from human anguish lurk in concealment. Redirecting their own death fixation toward the world at large neither saves sufferers nor alleviates their suffering- but it contaminates the universe. The attempt to avoid negativity merely spreads negativity around like manure- ushering in a whole sale mental pandemic.
In the name Yahweh, God, Jesus, and Allah- those conveniant excuses- Moses, Paul of Tarsus, Constantine, and Muhammad exploit the dark forces that penetrate them, that work so powerfully within them. By projecting their somber visions on the world they blacken it still further- and with impunity. The Patholological Grip of the death fixation does not heal itself through chaotic and magical muckspreading but by philosophical work upon oneself. Well-conducted introspection dispels the dreams and delirium on which gods feed."
~ Michael Onfray
And the problem in that way of thinking is so painfully obvious, it almost makes me wonder if the author himself has ever had a thought run through his head contrary to his world view.

As though death fixation alone can account or disprove a God or deity.
I have a water fixation from my thirst, perhaps I'm projecting that also? pshh
I have an oxygen fixation as well, maybe I'm making it up too!
I don't really have to pee, I just want to so bad it seems real *wets self*

If you're debating the material existence of something, you must compare it to other material things that exist. Obiously the want for a God plays no part in it's factuality, and to even entertain the thought it does is just retarded.

What is is, what isn't isn't, and rattling off with rationalistic pseudo intellectual pot shots at a group of people for believing something you find unpleasant is just a waste.

It never ceases to amaze me how pompous and irrelevant atheistic reasoning can be.

"Oh we can't have anything intelligible or conscious in nature, it just makes life so much more painful, so it can't be."
As though someone assured them to begin with, life was going to be fucking peachy.

Sorry, but that way of reasoning "There is suffering therefor there is no God just got tired with me a long time ago.
That is not a demonstration of anything other than an incredibly cynical cry baby complex we developed from our own ego.
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:58 PM   #24
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lmao @ thread title
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Old 08-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBold241 View Post
Actually the author has visited the "holy" land and spoke to numerous religious followers in doing so; and he's agnostic (an atheist with no balls).
As for the majority not using it for control, i strongly disagree. Even if they're not the ones doing the controlling, they are being controlled. There are numerous counts of faith getting in the way of logic. Such as a mother killing her children and saying "God told me to do so."
Or how about those who believe some bible stories to be literal/true, such as Jonah & The Whale (or "big fish") as well as Adam & Eve.
Those of us with common sense know neither of which are possible.
First off a man can't survive in a big fish's stomach, he'd be chewed up first (if we're talking a predator of a big fish) and if he was swallowed whole his bones would probably be crushed, skin melted off through stomach acid and such, and his body would become fish excrement.
As for A&E, if we all came from that much inbreeding there wouldn't be nearly as many races/ethnicities and there'd be far more mental disorders.

I myself was raised catholic, and i think the christian faith is nothing short of ridiculous. If we're only speaking of Christ and not the religion that followed, I believe he was an ideal human being. Not the mesiah, but someone we should aspire to be like (peaceful, forgiving, happy). Unfortunately there are COUNTLESS christians who are also prejudice. Whether that be towards those who follow other religions, don't believe in god, or sometimes just straight up racist. Going from the positive image of Christ, only the minority of Christians are actually Christ-like.

More people have been killed in the name of God/Religion than anything else.

I have nothing against those who are spiritual, however religious fundamentalism will doom our society to the apocalypse/"judgement day" that so many of these religious folks are contempt with. If one is so contempt with the end of humanity they are only enabling it to occur. Many of these people have political power as well, meaning that judgement day they speak of, they can help start. Nuclear fallout is actually a possibility with these people. That is something I just won't stand for.
The ones being controlled are the ones who listen to what's being given to them from a podium, without having gone into the books themselves to get the entire story. The example of the woman is terrible though, because anyone who would say that is clearly not listening to the same God that created the Heavens and the Earth, more like she's worshipping the god that is reffered to on the faces of the U.S. currency. I.E. The Devil.

Nothing is, "impossible". To say that anything is not possible, is to say that there is something that God cannot do. Since you're coming from a different point of view than I am, I don't expect you to believe it, just look at another perspective. Jonah, peace be upon him, was a Prophet, that alone separates him from other men. The whale didn't eat him because he wasn't supposed to. You can't base what has already happened on what you think is supposed to happen based on conventional thought.

Faith in things such as this surpasses logic, since logic is based on the material world. Things that can be measured and seen. This realm is important, but it isn't the ultimate form of perception and it's an insult to the greater part of creation, even the mysteries of your very mind, to say that because something isn't, "logical", it isn't possible or happening.

The story of Adam and Eve can be debated upon all day and I won't bother getting into it. All I will say is this; there is more going on than you and I both know. It's not our place to question it and it's certainly not our place to presume to know more than those that came before us. It's dangerous.

Your beliefs in and about Christ, peace be upon him, are entirely up to you.

True, more people have been killed in the name of God than most anything else. However, you and I both know that there are some people in the world that need to be killed. If I were to start a thread entitled, "people that need/needed to die", I'm sure it would exceed 4 pages, provided people actually decided to be serious about it and not put down something redundant like Kathy Lee Gifford or something. The dictators, false prophets, drug dealers, child molestors, rapists, etc. all deserve to go. The problem is that no one, for the most part, has the spine these days to exercise true justice. The quote that reads, "All that is required for evil to conquer, is for good men to do nothing." Don't get it twisted and think that killing is wrong. The Commandment that reads, "Thou shall not kill" is speaking upon killing those who are just trying to live thier own lives. If I'm Muslim and you're Catholic, we have no business trying to kill eachother, so long as we respect each other's beliefs and keep it moving. Like now, it's a peaceful debate and nothing more. Seriously though, for the sake of arguement, if you were to lullaby a child-molestor, the way the dictionary defines justice, do you think that would really be a bad mark on your record? Or, would you consider it to be a public service?

I believe that Judgement Day is a full-blown conclusion, the only question is, where will we be when it happens?
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Old 08-05-2009, 09:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz View Post
The ones being controlled are the ones who listen to what's being given to them from a podium, without having gone into the books themselves to get the entire story. The example of the woman is terrible though, because anyone who would say that is clearly not listening to the same God that created the Heavens and the Earth, more like she's worshipping the god that is reffered to on the faces of the U.S. currency. I.E. The Devil.

Nothing is, "impossible". To say that anything is not possible, is to say that there is something that God cannot do. Since you're coming from a different point of view than I am, I don't expect you to believe it, just look at another perspective. Jonah, peace be upon him, was a Prophet, that alone separates him from other men. The whale didn't eat him because he wasn't supposed to. You can't base what has already happened on what you think is supposed to happen based on conventional thought.

Faith in things such as this surpasses logic, since logic is based on the material world. Things that can be measured and seen. This realm is important, but it isn't the ultimate form of perception and it's an insult to the greater part of creation, even the mysteries of your very mind, to say that because something isn't, "logical", it isn't possible or happening.

The story of Adam and Eve can be debated upon all day and I won't bother getting into it. All I will say is this; there is more going on than you and I both know. It's not our place to question it and it's certainly not our place to presume to know more than those that came before us. It's dangerous.

Your beliefs in and about Christ, peace be upon him, are entirely up to you.

True, more people have been killed in the name of God than most anything else. However, you and I both know that there are some people in the world that need to be killed. If I were to start a thread entitled, "people that need/needed to die", I'm sure it would exceed 4 pages, provided people actually decided to be serious about it and not put down something redundant like Kathy Lee Gifford or something. The dictators, false prophets, drug dealers, child molestors, rapists, etc. all deserve to go. The problem is that no one, for the most part, has the spine these days to exercise true justice. The quote that reads, "All that is required for evil to conquer, is for good men to do nothing." Don't get it twisted and think that killing is wrong. The Commandment that reads, "Thou shall not kill" is speaking upon killing those who are just trying to live thier own lives. If I'm Muslim and you're Catholic, we have no business trying to kill eachother, so long as we respect each other's beliefs and keep it moving. Like now, it's a peaceful debate and nothing more. Seriously though, for the sake of arguement, if you were to lullaby a child-molestor, the way the dictionary defines justice, do you think that would really be a bad mark on your record? Or, would you consider it to be a public service?

I believe that Judgement Day is a full-blown conclusion, the only question is, where will we be when it happens?
i literally disagree with every fundamentalist piece of bullshit you just pulled out of your ass.
although to be honest, i'm about to head out to a party, so hopefully someone else will give you a rebuttal first, if not expect one from me tomorrow.
you're blinded by faith, it's disturbing.
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Old 08-05-2009, 10:24 PM   #27
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i really cant blame people for thinking christians are idiots. the word of God has been misinterpreted by so many people, both non-believers and believers.

still, the Lord cannot be blamed for man's repugnant interpretation of His word.
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:12 PM   #28
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^
that's the problem with words though. They can never contain the fullness of reality/truth. They can always, no matter how accurate they may be, be misinterpreted and misunderstood. Truth cant be known from reading words in a book, truth can only be known from experiencing truth. This is why the Bible is not "the word of God". God would not communicate the truth through something that can never contain the truth.

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Old 08-05-2009, 11:54 PM   #29
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^
that's the problem with words though. They can never contain the fullness of reality/truth. They can always, no matter how accurate they may be, be misinterpreted and misunderstood.

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If by words you mean words in the English language, then you are right. There are languages that convey reality thru words: Hebrew and Arabic. There could be others that I do not know about.
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:36 AM   #30
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No language can. Not reality/truth in it's absolute fullness. Reality can not be replaced by words. No matter how well I describe what a dog looks like (whether in english, hebrew, arabic, whatever...) the only way you will ever know the truth as to what a dog looks like is to experience what a dog looks like.

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