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Old 08-06-2009, 02:07 AM   #31
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No language can. Not reality/truth in it's absolute fullness. Reality can not be replaced by words.
I'm not talking about replacing reality with words. I'm talking about words capturing the general meaning of somethings' essence.


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No matter how well I describe what a dog looks like (whether in english, hebrew, arabic, whatever...) the only way you will ever know the truth as to what a dog looks like is to experience what a dog looks like.

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True. Obviously to know what a dog 'looks like', a person would need to 'look' at one. I am not talking about that though.

Many if not all words in the Hebrew/Arabic language have the basic idea of what a thing is in it's definition. And if you check the root consonants of the word, you would get the essence of the words meaning.

Arabic and Hebrew words are generally based on a root that uses three consonants to define the underlying meaning of the word.
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Old 08-06-2009, 06:03 AM   #32
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We're on the same page. I'm talking about people who think they are spiritual and "know" the word of God because they have read the bible daily. Yet they act like a savage in their day-to-day. Truth is experienced not read in a book, is all I'm saying.

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Old 08-06-2009, 08:51 AM   #33
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We're on the same page. I'm talking about people who think they are spiritual and "know" the word of God because they have read the bible daily. Yet they act like a savage in their day-to-day.
of course,

the word of God are instructions for how those who follow him are to live. if they disobey these words and "live like savages" then they dont have truth, they've just read it.

read james 1:22-25

you cant just talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk.
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:16 PM   #34
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i literally disagree with every fundamentalist piece of bullshit you just pulled out of your ass.
although to be honest, i'm about to head out to a party, so hopefully someone else will give you a rebuttal first, if not expect one from me tomorrow.
you're blinded by faith, it's disturbing.
I'm not surprised that you disagree, because that's what you were meant to do. Likewise with the petty insults and such. I just hope that you not only see the futility in doing such things, but that you also get a bit of insight into yourself by reading what you posted.

I doubt it though.
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:59 PM   #35
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We're on the same page. I'm talking about people who think they are spiritual and "know" the word of God because they have read the bible daily. Yet they act like a savage in their day-to-day. Truth is experienced not read in a book, is all I'm saying.

SHEM HETEP
Ok.

"Truth is experienced". I agree with that.
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:14 AM   #36
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I'm not surprised that you disagree, because that's what you were meant to do. Likewise with the petty insults and such. I just hope that you not only see the futility in doing such things, but that you also get a bit of insight into yourself by reading what you posted.

I doubt it though.
that i'm fundamentally against those with much faith in god whom have little respect for the scientific community? you got it.
dude, honestly, if you're just christian for the spirituality of it then there's nothing wrong with that.
however if you believe in the teachings of christ and "love thy neighbor" turning the cheek, etc, but then say "except for those queers", it's biggotry in the guise of morality. which i believe to be wrong. if you're an asshole, admit it (like me) rather than hiding behind your cross embedded curtain.

and what did you mean i can't critique a story that people interpret to be literal by using scientific facts to discredit the story itself? if you're going to believe in literal interpretation of bible stories, i will too- but in doing so will disprove them with logic & common sense.

time for that full rebuttal.....

nothing is impossible? really? can you cut off your arm and grow a new one? can you fly without technological aid? can you breathe for over 2 hours underwater without a scuba tank? can you destroy matter in an instant like Dr. Manhattan? or shoot beams of energy from your eyes like cyclops, without technological assistance?
oh well...... guess some things ARE humanly impossible.
granted those activities do become possible once we get SCIENCE to help us.

logic is based on the material world..... this is true, but know there is no scientific EVIDENCE to prove that your metaphysical after life even exists. don't get me wrong, if and when i see a soul travel from hell and tell me to be a good person or else i'm doomed to endless torture, or a scientist PROVES it...... then i'll believe it. but having concrete faith without evidence is foolish.

haha and why avoid the debate of adam and eve? the scientific community strongly opposes the idea of creationism. maybe because, once again buddy, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT BUT PLENTY TO DISCREDIT IT. this evidence i speak of is ofcourse evolution. maybe not even in the darwinian sense, but animals have evolved from others. and we has humans have gained greater skeletal structure over the past thousands of years. let's not even touch on how genetically similar we are to apes but rather how in medieval times their jawbone was large enough to keep their wisdom teeth in, now thats not the case. atleast not with MOST people. and for the record, even pop john paul stated that evolution is no longer a mere theory.

"However, you and I both know that there are some people in the world that need to be killed."
actually i don't know that. maybe because i care for human life too much. are there some people that should be exhiled and left to fend for themselves? yes, but isolation and death are different. you believe that cause you believe there to be an after life, as previously stated the afterlife theory has not been proven by anymeans so i see no point in allowing it to control my life. why should i follow laws written by corrupt religious officials over a millinia ago?

"I believe that Judgement Day is a full-blown conclusion, the only question is, where will we be when it happens?"
once again your own statement of your faith proves my point. you've stated you only care for CERTAIN human beings and not all life itself. i'd like to see humanity advance, and dieing is not a part of making my life better. actually it's an end. not a begining to spirituality after the fact..... when you're dead- you're dead. i had a friend flatline by OD and....... well there's no light. no tunnel. NOTHING. when you're dead- that's it.
and unlike you sir, i don't wish death upon ANYONE. i am a humanist. there is no "bad person", just those who aren't living to their full potential as a HUMAN BEING. not as a spirit.
what you just said with that statement is that you are OK with nuclear holocaust, does anyone else find that as disturbing as i do?

as for where i'll be? i won't dignify that with a direct response, because i aim not to allow it to happen, and to try and enlighten those to secularism as well as intelectualism.

i wish you no ill will, however i do wish you'll wise up and view reality as factual and not as temporary.

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Old 08-08-2009, 02:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by DrBold241 View Post
that i'm fundamentally against those with much faith in god whom have little respect for the scientific community? you got it.
dude, honestly, if you're just christian for the spirituality of it then there's nothing wrong with that.
however if you believe in the teachings of christ and "love thy neighbor" turning the cheek, etc, but then say "except for those queers", it's biggotry in the guise of morality. which i believe to be wrong. if you're an asshole, admit it (like me) rather than hiding behind your cross embedded curtain.

and what did you mean i can't critique a story that people interpret to be literal by using scientific facts to discredit the story itself? if you're going to believe in literal interpretation of bible stories, i will too- but in doing so will disprove them with logic & common sense.

time for that full rebuttal.....

nothing is impossible? really? can you cut off your arm and grow a new one? can you fly without technological aid? can you breathe for over 2 hours underwater without a scuba tank? can you destroy matter in an instant like Dr. Manhattan? or shoot beams of energy from your eyes like cyclops, without technological assistance?
oh well...... guess some things ARE humanly impossible.
granted those activities do become possible once we get SCIENCE to help us.

logic is based on the material world..... this is true, but know there is no scientific EVIDENCE to prove that your metaphysical after life even exists. don't get me wrong, if and when i see a soul travel from hell and tell me to be a good person or else i'm doomed to endless torture, or a scientist PROVES it...... then i'll believe it. but having concrete faith without evidence is foolish.

haha and why avoid the debate of adam and eve? the scientific community strongly opposes the idea of creationism. maybe because, once again buddy, THERE'S NO EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT IT BUT PLENTY TO DISCREDIT IT. this evidence i speak of is ofcourse evolution. maybe not even in the darwinian sense, but animals have evolved from others. and we has humans have gained greater skeletal structure over the past thousands of years. let's not even touch on how genetically similar we are to apes but rather how in medieval times their jawbone was large enough to keep their wisdom teeth in, now thats not the case. atleast not with MOST people. and for the record, even pop john paul stated that evolution is no longer a mere theory.

"However, you and I both know that there are some people in the world that need to be killed."
actually i don't know that. maybe because i care for human life too much. are there some people that should be exhiled and left to fend for themselves? yes, but isolation and death are different. you believe that cause you believe there to be an after life, as previously stated the afterlife theory has not been proven by anymeans so i see no point in allowing it to control my life. why should i follow laws written by corrupt religious officials over a millinia ago?

"I believe that Judgement Day is a full-blown conclusion, the only question is, where will we be when it happens?"
once again your own statement of your faith proves my point. you've stated you only care for CERTAIN human beings and not all life itself. i'd like to see humanity advance, and dieing is not a part of making my life better. actually it's an end. not a begining to spirituality after the fact..... when you're dead- you're dead. i had a friend flatline by OD and....... well there's no light. no tunnel. NOTHING. when you're dead- that's it.
and unlike you sir, i don't wish death upon ANYONE. i am a humanist. there is no "bad person", just those who aren't living to their full potential as a HUMAN BEING. not as a spirit.
what you just said with that statement is that you are OK with nuclear holocaust, does anyone else find that as disturbing as i do?

as for where i'll be? i won't dignify that with a direct response, because i aim not to allow it to happen, and to try and enlighten those to secularism as well as intelectualism.

i wish you no ill will, however i do wish you'll wise up and view reality as factual and not as temporary.
Biggotry in the guise of morality is wrong, but that wasn't the backbone of your argument, which seems more likely to be a case of, "If I can't see it, hear it, feel it etc. then it isn't real."

It's about balance. You choose to be an asshole for the same reasons that everyone else does, it's easy to do so. You don't have to live on a plane where you and your human emotions are as one and for the sake of being afraid of pain, you choose to go to the extreme negative, believing that you're exercising strength. That's your choice. This isn't about one or the other, positivity or negativity, it's about a healthy and equal balance between the two. At this point, this is well past your ability to grasp.

All of the things that you stated as being impossible are only impossible because you choose to think that they are. I would've hoped, that for someone so in love with science and "logic", that you would be well familiar with Quantum Theory, but obviously I was mistaken. Even if you are, you're probably one of the many who demonizes it simply because it doesn't sit well with you. Growing new limbs, firing death rays from your eyes, levitation (which the Yogis in India do quite often) are all matters of concentration. You say these things are, "Humanly impossible", but you come from a modern perspective. As such, it's very short-sighted. You have no idea what a human being is capable of because you've never tried to find out. You follow the notion that everything that there is to know about creation can be found in a classroom or a book. Since you've clearly decided to limit yourself in these aspects and are quite happy with that limitation, bon appetit.


No evidence to prove that you're metaphysical?.....o.k......look up, "Astral Projection". The soul leaves the body every time you go to sleep, though it's still connected. That alone would be enough for someone with adequate intelligence. It doesn't matter if you saw a soul from Hell or not, you wouldn't believe and when someone asked you to explain it, you probably blame it on global warming. Having faith without concrete evidence is foolish? No. Bowing to science and scientists, instead of The One who taught science to man is foolish. Get it straight. These people weren't born knowing about the speed of light or the Earth's axis being tilted.

The MAINSTREAM scientific community disagrees with the story of Adam and Eve. Again, I would think that this being a Wu-Tang forum, that we would all know that anything in the mainstream is 9 times out of 10 bullshit. Obviously I was mistaken.

Humans have gained greater skeletal structure? lol. Seriously. If you really look at Cro-Magnon man's skull, an enlarged brain means MORE capacity for thought, action, reaction, reflection, etc. Yeah, humans have evolved, but we've only gotten dumber through the ages, as can be seen clearly through skeletal structure and various threads. And for the record, Pope John Paul was part of The Illuminati, sue me if I'd take the word of a bum on the street first.

Awwww.....you care for human life? If that's really the case, then you know that to keep a man or woman alive, that behaves like a savage, is to further keep innocent people in danger. Period. You just don't have the backbone to even spiritually take a stand as strong as that, just like most other people. You think everything can be solved with clever words and a few people's votes. It's that kind of thinking that has given birth to so many weak individuals during the last few centuries. It takes courage to kill. Especially for the right reasons. You wouldn't even have to go into any book, your own soul can testify to that, provided you actually LISTEN to it and don't drown it out with your brain, and not even the whole brain, but the left-side in general.

I never said I didn't care for life in general and I would greatly appreciate it if you stopped trying to put words in my mouth. Some are sacrificed so others can live. If someone comes to your house and kills everyone there, minus yourself, if you're telling me that you would rather see him or her stand trial, rather than going out and killing them yourself, then you're just a pussy. Period. You'd rather talk than take action. You have to know when to negotiate and when to attack. Those beloved scientists of yours also made some of the finest weapons as well. Everything has a purpose.

I don't know who told you that everything revolved around you, but whoever did, they lied miserably. You're taking your own personal experience with Death as the determining factor in every experience?

Anyone that is afraid of Death, is only afraid because of the things that they've done in life. The fear of Death alone is the subconscious telling you that there IS something and a VERY good reason to be afraid. I have no problem with a nuclear holocaust because I know that whatever happens was meant to happen, all I have to do is spend the time that I have properly.

If you're a humanist, then you know that some people need to go. Anything else is being a coward. You can do evil for so long that it literally becomes who you are. Or do you know nothing of Adolf Hitler either? You're talking about living to your full potential as a human being, but you believe in impossibility?

Enlightenment is up to the second party. I could care less what you do with whatever knowledge you gather, because it's obvious that you don't gather it in order to become one with it. More like having something interesting (seemingly anyway) to say during a conversation. And it's, "Intellectualism".

Dude....I'm done....you can't seem to make up your mind very well and it seems to change depending on how the conversation can benefit your appearance.

Oh, and reality is both factual and temporary.
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Old 08-08-2009, 03:54 PM   #38
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I'm an atheist myself and I agree with a lot of points of the thread starter.

I will never try to talk people out of their religion, but I honestly find it hard to respect people who believe in some sort of higher power.

I don't mean I hate the followers, I just can't really connect to those kind of people. Even the ones who don't go to church or read the bible, but just feel that there's some man/women/creature up there, seem brainwashed. And talking to them feels like talking to a kid or a doped up druggie.

To me religious people are inferior to atheists and I realize that sounds arrogant and like I hold the truth, but I refuse to believe there's some magical being that has any sort of control over this planet.
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:17 PM   #39
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... but just feel that there's some man/women/creature up there, seem brainwashed...

...I refuse to believe there's some magical being that has any sort of control over this planet.
What you've stated is not the only concept of a higher power.

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Old 08-08-2009, 07:09 PM   #40
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I apply as much logic to my belief in my own personal existence.

There is no proof that I know of that explains everything. So I do not have those answers....As I live my life, I will always look for newer evidence through different perspectives, but I may or may not find the answer.

Its all, in my opinion how you chose to cope with not knowing the answer.
For some people, its comforting to believe there is a God watching over them and that their is a place for them when they die.

Others cannot lie to themselves.

There are many forms of belief, not all entail the 'invisible man' type.


I don't think I can label myself.

The closest thing I can say is that I have no label, no style, or more accurately that is what i wish to achieve.

Ability to adapt to whatever comes my way.
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:00 PM   #41
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Hmmm
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Old 08-09-2009, 06:33 PM   #42
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...but I honestly find it hard to respect people who believe in some sort of higher power.

I don't mean I hate the followers, I just can't really connect to those kind of people. Even the ones who don't go to church or read the bible, but just feel that there's some man/women/creature up there, seem brainwashed. And talking to them feels like talking to a kid or a doped up druggie.

To me religious people are inferior to atheists and I realize that sounds arrogant and like I hold the truth, but I refuse to believe there's some magical being that has any sort of control over this planet.
co-sign. it all sounds like ridiculous children stories.


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I apply as much logic to my belief in my own personal existence.


Its all, in my opinion how you chose to cope with not knowing the answer.
For some people, its comforting to believe there is a God watching over them and that their is a place for them when they die.

Others cannot lie to themselves.
precisely.
if you're in prison, at war, or just living a shitty life, by all means believe that your fate is in the hands of god rather than yourself. whatever helps you sleep at night.
however when you're in a city life and doing fairly well, or atleast decent, you may not exactly need the comfort of god.

as for mainstream vs underground, science is when mainstream is not bullshit friend, and it's actually the random theorists out there that got it twisted.
EVIDENCE matters and when it comes to the debate of a metaphysical after life, there's little to support it.
as for having modern views........ uh..... no shit? we exist in a modern world. i can access almost endles information in the palm of my hand, i could be typing this on my ipod (i'm not, but it's possible), so why should i try to interpret a modern world through a corrupted system of beliefs? yes the church is corrupt and as been since originated, that's why we needed the renaissance and atleast for a short time introduced secularism to our society, and i would like to see more of it.

as for levitation....... simply a magic trick buddy


again something you seem to miss dude is that i have stated numerous times I AM A PACIFIST. i don't condone murder whatsoever. no matter how justifiable you may claim it is. oh...... wait..... know who else justified not only murder but also genocide- HITLER.
so that argument of "evil" works just as well as the gateway theory of marijuana- it doesn't.

changing my argument? ok word it that way if you so please, i'm giving your old world views a broomstick in the ass with modernism. maybe because we don't live in 10 AD, we live in 2009. so pardon me for viewing the world in the way it is and not how it was.
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:00 PM   #43
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atheism is the mind rejecting a lie.

the truth is that there is a physical reality and a non-physical reality that interact via your mind and body.

the fact that you can read my words, visualize the meaning, calculate its veracity and then command your fingers to type a response is proof of that.

desire/will (motives) cannot be proven in and of itself, but it exists none the less.

how can you quantify an intangible using tools that measure tangibles ? you can only examine the effects.

can you prove that you really enjoy wutang's music?
you can measure the changes in brain activity in the pleasure centers but that may be from you enjoying to pretend to like them.


there is another layer of reality that is unseen. this is the realm of what humanity calls God.

animals and plants live according to a few basic laws. these laws are universal. humanity calls that nature. but science refuses to address the fundamental force that sets that "animus" into motion.

LIFE....

how does an atheist define life?
how does an atheist rationalize a force that is intangible but leaves empirical evidence?


but on a deeper level...
how does an atheist rationalize a reality constructed of energy vibrations?
energy that can be manipulated by the force of will(thought).

the term energy itself implies an eternal unseen force that manifest in the form of the physical. a primary push, that according to science and religion, is always in motion and permeates reality itself.



how does your desire to type transmogrify from a concept (want/will), into an electrical impulse that moves your fingers?




so yeah most religious people and atheists are dumb because there is no balance between the spiritual and the physical.


but there is a science of life that does strike a balance tho.


*throws up a fist and nods to falcon*

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Old 08-09-2009, 10:23 PM   #44
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on a side note, there is a difference between fundamentalism and spirituality.
if you're to take old world views with a modern sense of logic you can have a good thing, but it varies depending on what views you keep and which ones you lose.

again- touching on how countless Christians are also prejudice towards gays (there are Christians who are racist as well, but more so against homosexuality). if you agree that bigotry in the guise of morality is wrong then you should agree with this statement.

another contributing factor to my disbelief is personally i believe that life is too short to be following laws written by religious officials in power over hundreds of years ago.
live your life how you WANT to live it, not as you're TOLD to live it.

all that is truely known is existence itself. without it there is nothing. to live is to exist, without life there is nothing. death is the end.
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Old 08-10-2009, 04:17 AM   #45
Uncle Steezo
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death can't be the end.
death is only a transition from a shared physical/nonphysical dimension to a purely nonphysical one.



i know it sounds cliche but if you stop and think about it....



your mind (not brain) exists outside of time and space.
you don't think in "realtime" and your thoughts lack mass and volume.
why would the destruction of the tool (body/meat puppet) signify the destruction of the user (mind/puppet master)?





you so are focused on religion you lost sight of what claiming to be an atheist means.

to be an atheist you have to:
disregard the empirical evidence all around and in you, that suggests that something, (God/"nature"/life), has established rules/system/laws that govern reality.

ignore the laws of physics that describe the fabric of reality and flow of energy.

flat out lie to yourself when something inside is saying otherwise





the magic genie puppet master sky god is a fairytale.
this is the control mechanism that you are associating with God.


God is in you and around you. everything is made of "God Particles" (matter/energy).

how can you control someone who knows that they are all powerful?
well, you have to separate God from man then place an institution in between.

religion.






you are being told how to live your life every second.
something is telling your energy field to vibrate in such a way that allows you to "exist" (atoms/cells/body)

something is telling your body to remind you(mind) it needs to transmute more energy from one form to another in order maintain the connection(body/brain) you have with this physical dimension.
(stomach growl)

something is telling you that holding your breath indefinitely is not a good idea. (pass out)

this "something" is so omniscient that "every action has a reaction" meaning that nothing can be hidden from it. you can't break this law when the universe isn't watching. God is always watching.




two particles formed from the same event can be on the opposite sides of the universe, but still affect each other INSTANTLY.
since all matter in this universe comes from the same event (big bang), then everything in existence is connected by an "unseen" bond. omnipresent. God is everywhere.



Science theorizes that anything is possible, just that some things are more probable than others. its possible that one day i'll pop a mile long boner... but its probably not going to happen.
but on a quantum level, there is nothing preventing the "quantum foam" that my dick atoms are made of, from manifesting as a king king shlong.

somewhere in the fabric of reality, there must be a system that regulates what frequency matter/energy (strings) must vibrate.

something determines which globs of foam vibrate at "dick atom" frequency and which globs of matter/energy vibrate at "erection heat" frequency.

that same something also regulates the amount of time that "note" is held.

whatever is the mechanism for this is, it's fundamental and powerful enuff to manufacture reality itself. omnipotent. God is all powerful.


now if this omniscient, onmipresent, omnipotent... something(God), is intertwined into every aspect of existence, how could its sphere of influence stop short of human behavior(morality/divine law)? there is a right way and wrong way to live.

grey area?.... i guess... when it comes to each and every minute decision you make in life. but there comes a point where coffee with cream becomes cream with coffee.

playing bulletproof wallets instead of ironman isn't a sin, aka an act contrary to universal/divine law.
but sticking your dick in the usb slot of your ipod prolly is.




religion doesn't want you to connect the dots like i just did.
otherwise it gets rendered obsolete.

once you learn how to hear what God is telling you to do, there's no need for a preacher/imam/rabbi/priest to do it.




wow this is a long post and i prolly rambled a bit.
basically just transcribing a train of thought.




Last edited by Uncle Steezo; 08-10-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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