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Old 09-30-2009, 10:51 PM   #1
AcidPhosphate69
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Default The Horns

I watch a lot of these videos of "occult" symbolism by famous people. Notably, "the horns".



Now, a lot of these videos point out the people in question using these horns as proof of their affiliation with "dark powers" and "satanism".

Allow me to educate some people to the true nature of this symbol.

In some countries, it's a symbol of infidelity, This meaning goes back to Greek mythos, namely, from the legend of the Minotaur, who was born from queen Parsiphae's infidelity with a white bull, betraying her husband King Minos of Crete.

In a lot of cultures, the symbol is also used to ward off bad luck. For example, if a black cat cross your path, you would make that symbol. This goes back to Indian Buddhism's Mudrās. Namely, the Karana mudrā.

Please, bare with me on this on...I understand you're not talking about this context. I'm just giving you guys some back ground on it.

Now, in the Satanist context, the identical symbol to the Karana Mudra was first used in 1966 by Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan. Two fingers up to affirm the duality of nature, with the three down to deny the Holy Trinity.

This isn't exactly the symbol you guys are thinking of though. Now I'll move onto the one in question.



That symbol was popularized by Ronnie James Dio. For all who don't know, Ronnie James Dio is to metal, what Michael Jackson (influence wise) is to RnB. He's widely considered by metal heads one of main influences to the genre.

Dio first used this symbol on tour after the release of Heaven and Hell. The first album Black Sabbath put out with Dio as Ozzy's replacement. Dio has stated that he first learned the symbol from his grandmother as a gesture to ward off evil spirits. Which would make sense cuz he's of Southern Italian descent and the gesture is widely used in that context in that region.

My personal beliefs on the current popularity of this gesture by other genres

It is my opinion that this started when being a "rockstar" started being the trend in mainstream hip-hop. You guys all know what I'm talking about. Seeing as this is gesture means metal or rock in the world of rock 'n' roll, you could see how the gesture would be used by rappers trying to emulate what "rockstars" do.

In conclusion

You guys are basing conspiracy theories on a mostly benign gesture. Aside from being somewhat of a vulgarity in certain cultures, the message conveyed is never truly that of maliciousness of "evil". Even in the more negative contexts, it's used much like the middle finger or as a symbol saying somebody is committing adultery.

The only person to really bring it out as a Satanic gesture was Anton LaVey. And he's a fucking moron. If you don't believe me, read the Satanic Bible. It's mostly trash. AND even though he DID use the gesture for Satanic purposes, the gesture he used was not the gesture you guys see being used by so called "satanic" celebrities.

In my opinion, some of you need to stop jumping to conclusions and actually look into things a bit deeper. I'm not denying anything certain people are saying, I'm just calling for a more critical view of some of the claims these videos make. I'd also like to thank those of you that actually read this entire post. This was not a copy and paste thing, this is something I believe I needed to bring to the table. Thank for your time. I really do appreciate that.

That's it. Take it or leave it. Most of my sources are my common knowledge about Ronnie James Dio and wikipedia and such. Here's a couple links to prove it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronnie_James_Dio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra#Karana_Mudr.C4.81

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corna
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Old 10-01-2009, 12:15 AM   #2
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Symbols by definition represents something else by association, resemblance, or convention. This makes symbols open to interpretation and uses.

Ok. So some say it is about warding off evil. Others could also say, it resembles the horns of a goat, which represent the devil. Both interpretations could be right.

Symbolism is not an exact science and is open to interpretation. Also, the meanings of symbols could change over time making the "warding off evil" interpretation obsolete.
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:15 AM   #3
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Notice how a lot of conspiracies theories apply the same Christian values that they are attempting to combat.

Always mention of devil worship and the occult, as if it were a problem.

What's it to anyone if some nut wants to say they worship the devil.
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:37 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Bateman View Post


Always mention of devil worship and the occult, as if it were a problem.

What's it to anyone if some nut wants to say they worship the devil.
because it is wrong !!!!!


Secondly why would you want to worship someone who only wants to destroy you.


peace be with you !
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:08 PM   #5
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Secondly why would you want to worship someone who only wants to destroy you.
I've never understood that logic. I mean, if "God" rewards you for being good...why would the Devil punish you for being bad? Wouldn't that be what he wanted? Please know I don't care for an answer on that, I'd rather not go down that road with you. No offense.

FMJ, I do understand the idea behind symbolism and how it changes. But I also stated that most of the "West" associates that symbol with rock and roll. That's just common knowledge. I'm not trying to dissprove anything, I'm only giving a deeper look into something that people are using as an example for something.

Me and my friends throw up the horns all the time...does that make us part of the conspiracy?

You can't just look at one angle of something and act like you know what you're talking about. Everything has multiple facets. I'm willing to bet half of those celebs just threw it up to throw it up. Plain and simple.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:11 PM   #6
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If you think conspiracy theories are hatched solely based on that symbol, you are an idiot.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:38 PM   #7
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PROPS!
way to come in here and post a reasonable arguement. while i agree with most of the OP, there are many signs of fertility and infertility(the sun) in the occult world. freemasons and illuminati understand this.

i would suggest looking up molech(babylonian god mentioned also in the bible) and queen semarimis(sumerian/babylonian goddess) for further correlations
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidPhosphate69 View Post

FMJ, I do understand the idea behind symbolism and how it changes. But I also stated that most of the "West" associates that symbol with rock and roll. That's just common knowledge. I'm not trying to dissprove anything, I'm only giving a deeper look into something that people are using as an example for something.

Ya.

I'm just saying to you it could mean one thing, and to others it could mean something else. Some in the west see it as a rock & roll symbol, others see satanic one. Both interpretations are legit.

Peace.
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:00 PM   #9
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When Bush makes the symbol it could be seen as "hook em horns", when his wife makes it, something is amiss
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:30 PM   #10
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rock and rollers throw it up for the same reason jayz and his fans throw up the triangle
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Old 10-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
If you think conspiracy theories are hatched solely based on that symbol, you are an idiot.
If you think that I think conspiracy theories are hatched solely based on that symbol, you are an idiot.

Pale, I'll have to check that out. I mean, the main reason I made this thread is because I feel that a lot of shit out there is just straight propaganda. On both sides of the coin, ya know? I just feel we'd be better protected as a whole if we were all a bit more skeptical. Even if we like what we're hearing.
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:16 PM   #12
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Old 10-01-2009, 08:27 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by AcidPhosphate69 View Post
I've never understood that logic. I mean, if "God" rewards you for being good...why would the Devil punish you for being bad? Wouldn't that be what he wanted? Please know I don't care for an answer on that, I'd rather not go down that road with you. No offense.
even if you are bad the devil is still not going to reward you like you are on his side or somthing... by you being bad , is exactly what the devil wants because it will destroy you in the eyes of GOD, therefore dragging you down to hell and seperating you from GOD .....who wants nothing more than to save you and give you blessings and eternal life...so being bad is exactly how the devil goes about destroying you because he knows that you will be punished by GOD therefore eventually being destroyed in hell.


so if you had the theory that if I be bad the devil will leave me alone and or even reward me , you are wrong because by you doing that (being bad) you are secretly being destroyed by the devil not rewarded.


peace be with you !
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Old 10-01-2009, 09:59 PM   #14
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Yeah, the Bushes just make it look creepy. Also, it should be noted that the horns with the thumb OUT is "I love you" in sign language. Not the same. The last picture looks more like he's using it for emphasis, much like my old siding foreman but that's purely speculation.

Quote:
so if you had the theory that if I be bad the devil will leave me alone and or even reward me , you are wrong because by you doing that (being bad) you are secretly being destroyed by the devil not rewarded.
Sorry dude, the reason I didn't want to discuss this is because it's a dead end. I don't believe in your God, nor do you believe in how I feel about religion. While I commend you on your faith, I just can't hold the same views as you. This is most polite way I can say it. I'd rather not turn this into a big deal.
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Old 10-01-2009, 10:09 PM   #15
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http://rapidshare.com/files/238509/Codex_Magica.rar

TEX MARRS: Codex Magica

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