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Old 10-08-2009, 06:50 AM   #31
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You should know the facts. We are urged by the words of Quran to reflect on creation in order to understand that there is a Creator. There is no force. As a matter of fact, "there is no compulsion" in the belief of Islam is apart of a verse in the Quran.
True.

This aspect of Islam is why I like the Way of Allah, the truth.

God does not do things in a spookily manner. Moths are attracted by the light, but don't realise that in what they perceive is darkness, therein lies a world unseen but existent, with more light and fruits etcc...


Prof Zooroka is a sheep, he loves it. Sheep like moths follow a light, any Light.

The picture he has as a sig is not Jesus lol. What is Jesus? What is his true name?


I read somewhere in the first page that Zooroka mentioned that 25th Dec was made a Christian thing so that they could include other peoples customs? lol and he still thinks Christianity is from God.



^Constantine liked this pic of the God Apollo, whom he praised even while being "Christian",



Jesus Christ
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:18 AM   #32
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There are differences between the two but the Quran accepts the "People of the Book" and establishes itself as the third book after the Old and New Testaments to help bring clarity and such.

My question would be how can a religion be built upon a foundation that is Astro-Theological in origin and not be a Astro-Theological religion itself?

I fully believe and know that there is a Divine Spirit that is the source of all creation but the world's religions all have less than divine origins. That is my contention.
I can't understand your question, can you reformulate it ?
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:33 AM   #33
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I can't understand your question, can you reformulate it ?
I'm asking how you can have a religion that by its own admission has two sun-worshipping religions (judaism and christianity) as its foundation and somehow not be a sun-worshipping religion itself?


I do think Islam gets closer to the core truth of the universe and I respect it but I still think its a valid question.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Visionz View Post
I'm asking how you can have a religion that by its own admission has two sun-worshipping religions (judaism and christianity) as its foundation and somehow not be a sun-worshipping religion itself?


I do think Islam gets closer to the core truth of the universe and I respect it but I still think its a valid question.
It is a valid question indeed but...

When Islam spoke about Judaism and Christianity (wich are by the way the names gaven to them by people, i mean if jesus comes now he won't tell you I came on earth with christianity same with Moses and Judaism) he never meant them as we know them nowerdays.

He also states in the Quoran that these 2 religions have been modified to the core and that the Quoran came to correct this.

Bible modified by the Romans, I mean theres 4 bibles now I think and there was 24 to choose from before the Vatican decided to take these 4 as reference.

The Talmud is another story.

That's why in Surat Al Fatiha :
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath (1), nor of those who wander astray (2).
Amen.


(1) the jews
(2) the christians : it's not the same as the jews coz its klinda not their fault or not the masses/followers, it's a minority (the ruler) who deformed the sacred texts of the bible.

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Old 10-08-2009, 10:13 AM   #35
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It is a valid question indeed but...

When Islam spoke about Judaism and Christianity (wich are by the way the names gaven to them by people, i mean if jesus comes now he won't tell you I came on earth with christianity same with Moses and Judaism) he never meant them as we know them nowerdays.

He also states in the Quoran that these 2 religions have been modified to the core and that the Quoran came to correct this.

Bible modified by the Romans, I mean theres 4 bibles now I think and there was 24 to choose from before the Vatican decided to take these 4 as reference.

The Talmud is another story.

That's why in Surat Al Fatiha :
Guide us on the straight path,
the path of those who have received your grace;
not the path of those who have brought down wrath (1), nor of those who wander astray (2).
Amen.


(1) the jews
(2) the christians : it's not the same as the jews coz its klinda not their fault or not the masses/followers, it's a minority (the ruler) who deformed the sacred texts of the bible.
^I can dig that. Could you tell me more about the schism that's developed between Sunni and Shi'ites? And where the hell do some of those Shiite practices come from? The celebration of Ashoura looks straight up sadistic.
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:33 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Visionz View Post
^I can dig that. Could you tell me more about the schism that's developed between Sunni and Shi'ites? And where the hell do some of those Shiite practices come from? The celebration of Ashoura looks straight up sadistic.
Shiites, from what I know, are a radical grup that emerged a few years after the death of Muhammad. They do believe that Mohammad was not ment to recieve the prophecy but his cousin Ali.

I dont know where their practices come from, I have to ask around me and I can answer you.

EDIT . I dont know much about them coz theres only an infinite minority where I live, I mean personnaly I dont know a single one of them but some of my friends do...
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:40 AM   #37
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Shiites, from what I know, are a radical grup that emerged a few years after the death of Muhammad. They do believe that Mohammad was not ment to recieve the prophecy but his cousin Ali.

I dont know where their practices come from, I have to ask around me and I can answer you.
Cool but doesn't that seem like a very irrational argument? If it was God's will that Ali recieve the prophecy then he would've received the prophecy right? I know that conflict has been going on for a very long time but it really seems to defy logic, ofcourse with rituals like this




expecting logical thoughts might be asking a little too much
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:43 AM   #38
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Cool but doesn't that seem like a very irrational argument? If it was God's will that Ali recieve the prophecy then he would've received the prophecy right? I know that conflict has been going on for a very long time but it really seems to defy logic, ofcourse with rituals like this




expecting logical thoughts might be asking a little too much
Yeah I know it makes no sense to me too, I see these stuff on TV like yall. I mean when I think I can't imagine that someone who follows islam can make such things to his muslim brother and I can't understand how iraqis kill each other in the name of the same god, I finished thinkin it's a political battle.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:20 AM   #39
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some of ya'll seem to forgot that solid amount of christians celebrate Christmas on Jan, 7th.


so it's not the exact date, it's all about two calendars. so please don't get yourselves confused


peace
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:25 AM   #40
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Ask the professor what exactly was the pagan festival the Christians were aligning their own with.

They didn't call the Winter Solstice the Winter Solstice, they were celebrating the resurrection of God's Son rising after death on the third day, coming back to bring light to their world. Keep in mind the solstice takes place on the 22nd but the celebration is on the 25th.

Hence the story goes way back before the people ever knew who Jesus was.
they weren't aligning anything with anything. it was just easier to toss the Christians a festival around the same time as everyone else to keep everyone happy. and, when Christianity was being introduced to all Romans, it was easy to celebrate Christmas since it happened to be around the same time as the other festivals. there was never any mention of God's Son rising on the third day, i've never read of any roman celebration where God's Son dies.

ANCIENT ROME: Saturnalia began as a feast day for Saturn on DEC-17 and of Ops (DEC-19). About 50 BCE, both were later converted into two day celebrations. During the Empire, the festivals were combined to cover a full week: DEC-17 to 23.

By the third century CE, there were many religions and spiritual mysteries being followed within the Roman Empire. Many, if not most, celebrated the birth of their god-man near the time of the solstice. Emperor Aurelian (270 to 275 CE) blended a number of Pagan solstice celebrations of the nativity of such god-men/saviors as Appolo, Attis, Baal, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Mithra, Osiris, Perseus, and Theseus into a single festival called the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun" on DEC-25. At the time, Mithraism and Christianity were fierce competitors. Aurelian had even declared Mithraism the official religion of the Roman Empire in 274 CE. Christianity won out by becoming the new official religion in the 4th century CE.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:26 AM   #41
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some of ya'll seem to forgot that solid amount of christians celebrate Christmas on Jan, 7th.


so it's not the exact date, it's all about two calendars. so please don't get yourselves confused


peace
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:30 AM   #42
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some of ya'll seem to forgot that solid amount of christians celebrate Christmas on Jan, 7th.


so it's not the exact date, it's all about two calendars. so please don't get yourselves confused


peace
When I made this thread I was speaking about the world I've personally observed. In all honesty I was unaware of people celebrating Christmas on the 7th. Where does that date come from and where are you at?
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:36 AM   #43
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they weren't aligning anything with anything. it was just easier to toss the Christians a festival around the same time as everyone else to keep everyone happy. and, when Christianity was being introduced to all Romans, it was easy to celebrate Christmas since it happened to be around the same time as the other festivals. there was never any mention of God's Son rising on the third day, i've never read of any roman celebration where God's Son dies.

ANCIENT ROME: Saturnalia began as a feast day for Saturn on DEC-17 and of Ops (DEC-19). About 50 BCE, both were later converted into two day celebrations. During the Empire, the festivals were combined to cover a full week: DEC-17 to 23.

By the third century CE, there were many religions and spiritual mysteries being followed within the Roman Empire. Many, if not most, celebrated the birth of their god-man near the time of the solstice. Emperor Aurelian (270 to 275 CE) blended a number of Pagan solstice celebrations of the nativity of such god-men/saviors as Appolo, Attis, Baal, Dionysus, Helios, Hercules, Horus, Mithra, Osiris, Perseus, and Theseus into a single festival called the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun" on DEC-25. At the time, Mithraism and Christianity were fierce competitors. Aurelian had even declared Mithraism the official religion of the Roman Empire in 274 CE. Christianity won out by becoming the new official religion in the 4th century CE.
the celebration of resurrection was Egyptian in origin which ofcourse preceded the Romans. The date comes into play but more importantly (atleast to myself when I posted this) was that the resurrection of the Sun after being dead for three days is a story that pre-dates Christianity itself by a comfortable margin.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:41 AM   #44
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^can you get some credible sources on that? the only source i've ever found for that (The Jesus myth was everywhere before Jesus) was from people trying to prove he didn't exist, i've never found the first source on these things.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:49 AM   #45
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^can you get some credible sources on that? the only source i've ever found for that (The Jesus myth was everywhere before Jesus) was from people trying to prove he didn't exist, i've never found the first source on these things.
It's a recurrent theme in a lot of cultures

check out this article in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
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