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Old 04-01-2010, 09:29 PM   #151
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the he is us.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:44 PM   #152
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You have free will, but every choice that sits before you he already knows and since he is omniscient and omnipresent, he will always know what you are going to do.
You have the freedom to choose anything, however anything you choose he will have foreknowledge of.

Even when he doesn't know he knows...
As he exist in an infinite number of forms and everywhere through out eternity..

He is not a person... callybasi
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:50 PM   #153
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he isnt a person..hes a 6 foot rabbit with pink overalls that hands out chocolates and hides rotten eggs.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:09 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk View Post
he isnt a person..hes a 6 foot rabbit with pink overalls that hands out chocolates and hides rotten eggs.
As I told someone earlier in the thread, he is defined by certain characteristics that you don't get to change. Even if you think he is a myth, you have no continuity over the concept as it isn't your intellectual property.

What he can do, isn't up for debate. That's a part of what the character is.

If you aren't addressing an omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent God, you aren't addressing God at all.
All arguments must be made with these already accepted.


It's kind of like saying Wolverine doesn't have steel claws or that Barack Obama isn't mixed, it's not debatable.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:14 PM   #155
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im not debating what attributes he has, my argument is that he WAS GIVEN them..by us.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:19 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk View Post
im not debating what attributes he has, my argument is that he WAS GIVEN them..by us.
Doesn't matter if he was or not. My point was simply that he has them and free will with God is not a contradiction.

I'm not jumping into a does God exist debate because in the end neither side would give up their biases.
Most atheists have a "I don't like to be told I'm wrong, if I say it is it is complex" same with most religious people.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:23 PM   #157
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am i really the only person that sees him arguing with himself?^^
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:33 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusk View Post
am i really the only person that sees him arguing with himself?^^
I wasn't arguing with you, simply pointing out your prior post has nothing to do with what I said originally.
And I wasn't speaking to you when I made my statement about free will, it came up in a post from face of the golden falcon. You just assumed it was directed at you.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:36 PM   #159
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no not necessarily..it just seems at times that ur less concerned with the topic and more concerned with how people handle it.
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Old 04-01-2010, 11:46 PM   #160
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I think objectivity is worth killing for.
If people are going to debate something and come to a conclusion, they should do it on certain terms.
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Old 04-02-2010, 12:01 AM   #161
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i think dusk is feeling trapped under the rubble of a crumbling paradigm.
but i don't want to turn this into gen chat so i'll leave it there.

i really enjoyed this thread and the contributions from both sides, specifically rollo, drunken dragon and the usual suspects of course.


i think this is an example of ktl at its best. we hit the topic from all angles from science to philosophy to metaphysics to opinion and emotion. all while being civil yet passionate.


bravo.


i'm gonna rep this whole thread now.
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:31 PM   #162
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bro are you serious? hahaha omg i love this forum...technically speaking everything ive said makes sense and supports my argument..and this is always the case..but when someone decides they disagree with what im saying, they decide im not making sense cuz they cant combat my logic. im not saying this in a contrived way, but seriously are you guys actually reading?
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:53 PM   #163
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what we've been doing all along is trying to correct/adjust each others visions
sometimes that's painful
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Old 04-02-2010, 01:59 PM   #164
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right, explain to me how that remedies..or even appropriates the proper response.
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Old 04-02-2010, 02:03 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ikke View Post
I'm an atheist but instead of disregarding the concept of god I just looked at the universe for something that fits the definition of god.

As A Result I don't see god as a conscience but rather a name for all the powers that make the universe work.
God is often seen as the overseer & Controller of the universe, this transelates into gravity for example, it makes sure we stay on earth & the earth stays in orbit around the sun so that we hav elife.
Another example is Evolution, it oversees us and often gives what we need to survive.
the laws of the universe in other words
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