Who are the Shiia ?

[Hellspawn]

Shiism is a very complex religion and society. Shiism is not a sect/ branch within Islam, but rather an independent religion that incorporates some Islamic concepts.

There are about 150 million Shia out of the 1.4 billion Muslims.



The Shia are based in Iran and constitute about 60 percent of the population of Iraq, mostly in the south upwards to Baghdad. Many live in Syria, Iran, Yemen, Lebanon (The well known guerilla organization Hizbollah).

They are known for their anti-Arabness and even their belief is not defined by law but emphasises rituals, passion and drama.

The Shia are called Shia from the term Shi'at Ali (the partisans of Ali, the cousin of the Muslim Prophet Mohammed). They broke from the Sunni essentially from the time of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr. The Shia thought Ali should have been the first caliph.

Other tipping points for the Shia include the murders of Ali's sons Hassan and Hussein. Hussein and Ali were killed in Kerbala. Hussein's tomb is found in Karbala (Iraq), Ali’s in Najaf. Their tombs are important places of pilgrimage for Shia ; there happends the bloody rites during wich people whip themselves untill they bleed we all seen on TV when they mourn Hussein's death. The self-flagellation represents for Shia their sense of guilt for having allowed Hussein to be murdered.



They revere their Imams (religious leaders) and look upon the first 12 Imams as being near prophetic status while Sunni Muslims' relationship with God is direct and is not mediated by anything like a priest or rabbi or imam. Shiia believe Imams receive divine revelations, similar to prophets (even nowerdays !!!). The Shia believe their Imams have extra-ordinary abilities and attributes. The Imams have full knowledge of the past, present and the future. Before being sent to Earth, the Shia Imams used to be made of light.

Some Shia believe Ali is God; while others reject this. However, many of the Shia even though they don't believe Imam Ali is God, yet they assign to Imam Ali some of God's functions and attributes. For example, they say that Imam Ali is the one who determine who will go to Hell and who will go to Paradise. This is one of the most serious blasphemies of the Shia because this constitutes associating partners with God which is the most serious sin in Islam.

The Khomeini, who was the top religious figure of Twelver Shiism in Iran and around the World, said in his book Al-Hukumah Al-Islamiyyah: " Our Imams occupy a rank unattainable by either an angel or a major Prophet....before the creation of the universe, the greatest Prophet SAWS, and the Imams - peace be upon them - were in the form of light which Allah made orbit." à Such beliefs have no basis in Islam and contradict Islam. The Quran makes it clear that Prophet was an ordinary human being. Khomeini is suggesting that Prophet Mohammad and the Imams existed before the creation of the universe and were in the form of light.



He also said : "...because we cannot imagine the Imams being forgetful or negligent, and we believe that they perceive all things which could benefit Muslims..." and "The Imam's teachings are like the Qur'an...they must be implemented and followed."

One example of the blasphemies of the Shia is the following Shia narration: "Whoever visits the tomb of Al-Hussain, peace be upon him, acknowledging his status, it is as if he has visited Allah."

Shiism lures and deceives its followers by operating under the name of Islam and incorporating some Islamic doctrines while adding new doctrines totally unrelated and contradictory to Islam as taught by the Quran and preached by Prophet Mohammad.

The Shia consider the Imams to be completely infallible, do not make even the slightest error. Hence following these Imams, according to Shia's creed, is obligatory on all true Shia Muslims until the Day of Judgment. In fact, reverence for these Imams is so great amongst the Shia that the Imams are believed to be on a level above even the Prophets or the highest ranking angels; A level wherein even the particles of the universe are subservient to them.

Below are some of the lies that the Shia tell about their 12 Imams, as some of you might have already known that the Shia's beliefs differ significantly in many aspects from Islam :

1. "All the Imams are infallible just like the prophets. The Shia derive their religion from their immaculate (infallible) Imams" (Usool al Kafi, p. 22)

2. "By listening to the voice of a person, the Imams can tell if the person was destined to go to hell or to heaven; they would thus answer his questions accordingly" (Usool al Kafi, p.185)

3. "The Imams possess all the knowledge granted to angels, prophets and messengers" (Al-Kulaini, Al-Kaafi, p.255.)

4. "The Imams know when they will die, and they do not die except by their own choice" (Ibid, p: 258)

5. "The Imams have knowledge of whatever occurred in the past and whatever will happen in the future, and nothing is concealed from them" (Ibid, p. 260.)

6. "The Imams have knowledge of all the revealed books, regardless of the languages in which they were revealed" (Ibid, p. 227)

7. "No one compiled the Qur'an completely except the Imams, and they encompass all of its knowledge' (Ibid, p. 228)

8. "Signs of the prophets are possessed by the Imams" (Ibid, p. 231)

9. "When the Imams' time comes, they will rule in accordance with the laws of prophet David and his dynasty. These Imams will not need to ask for presentation of evidence before passing their judgments" (Ibid,p. 397)

10. "There is not a single truth possessed by people, save that which originated with the Imams. Everything which did not originate from the Imams is false" (Ibid, p.277)

[Edgar Erebus]

Yeah, OK, but they are still part of Islam as religion. A Sunni can marry a Shia and in reverse. Let's rather say that the difference is as between Catholics and Orthodox: different beliefs, different rites and everything, but in the end both are Christians.

I like how that article you wrote or copied sounds like religious propaganda. Such shit killed 200 000 people in my area while I was a kid.

[Hellspawn]

Originally Posted by Slim T

Yeah, OK, but they are still part of Islam as religion. A Sunni can marry a Shia and in reverse. Let's rather say that the difference is as between Catholics and Orthodox: different beliefs, different rites and everything, but in the end both are Christians.

I like how that article you wrote or copied sounds like religious propaganda. Such shit killed 200 000 people in my area while I was a kid.

Well, I, as well as a mojority of muslims, don't associate myself to them. The difference is far deeper than Catholics and Orthodox that's why I posted this article because alot of people think "I don't respect these muslims who kill each others (in Iraq for example)".
It may sound like religious propaganda but these are only facts and quotes from Shiia sources (except the part where I say they lure and deceives its followers ).

[prof zooruka]

hell...If shia muslims are not real muslims, then why hasn`t sunni islam tried to make this clear to the rest of the world ???? ...Maybe they say it amongst sunni circles but as far as I know not one major sunni leader or mufti, has come out and said shia islam is a fake !!!!! and is not apart of islam not even bin laden !!!!! and he is one of the most fanatical islamists out there.



peace be with you !

[Hellspawn]

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

hell...If shia muslims are not real muslims, then why hasn`t sunni islam tried to make this clear to the rest of the world ????

...Maybe they say it amongst sunni circles[/quote]

Sunni are 90 % of the islamic world so it aint like a minority to say "Sunni circles"
They made statements that you didnt heard, tried to make it clear.

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

but as far as I know not one major sunni leader or mufti, has come out and said shia islam is a fake !!!!! and is not apart of islam not even bin laden !!!!! and he is one of the most fanatical islamists out there.

Do you know any sunni leader ?

The continuing Sunni Arab terror attacks, and the anti-Shia pronouncements of international Islamic terrorists like bin Laden, have made Sunni Arabs unwelcome in Iraq

www.strategypage.com

Al-Qaeda ideology classes in Afghanistan listed Shia along with "Heretics, ... America and Israel," as the four principle "enemies of Islam"

www.wikipedia.org

Since the beginning of 2003, there have been indications that sections of the Shias have been doing their own hunt for Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri, his No. 2.It was reported that the arrest of Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM), who had allegedly orchestrated the 9/11 terrorist strikes in the US, at Rawalpindi in March 2003, was made possible by intelligence provided by some Shias in Quetta, Balochistan, where he was living before fleeing to Rawalpindi

www.southasiaanalysis.org

Shia are on the hunt for their sworn enemies. They are unlikely to rest till they get them. They are doing this not because of any love for the US or Musharraf, but to avenge the deaths of their near and dear ones at the hands of Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

www.southasiaanalysis.org

etc etc etc...

See ? the most fanatic of all !

[HANZO]

well about 30% of Turkey is Alawi, which is i think a sub sect of shia.

Hellspawn you know anything of the Alawi (Alevi in Turkish). 100 billion times worse than Shia, i mean i respect Shia's/Iranians cause most seem to atleast go mosque and stuff. Alevis are taught that Ali is the prophet of Islam after Mohammed. They are taught not to go to mosque, they dnt pray, they dont fast during ramadan, they dont go on the Hajj, they are free to eat pork. they have a separate place of worship where they dance around with candles and alcohol is also consumed in these places of worship.

and they hate Sunni's with a god given passion.

yet they claim it is a sect of Islam. the base teachings are Shia Islam, but they have watered it down and made it in such a way that its become something entirely different.

[Sham-iLL]

Allah said in the last days there will be something like 84 claims of being Islam when truly there is only One Islam.

and in my opinion that one true pure form of Islam is Sunni.

[Hellspawn]

Originally Posted by HAN

well about 30% of Turkey is Alawi, which is i think a sub sect of shia.

Hellspawn you know anything of the Alawi (Alevi in Turkish). 100 billion times worse than Shia, i mean i respect Shia's/Iranians cause most seem to atleast go mosque and stuff. Alevis are taught that Ali is the prophet of Islam after Mohammed. They are taught not to go to mosque, they dnt pray, they dont fast during ramadan, they dont go on the Hajj, they are free to eat pork. they have a separate place of worship where they dance around with candles and alcohol is also consumed in these places of worship.

and they hate Sunni's with a god given passion.

yet they claim it is a sect of Islam. the base teachings are Shia Islam, but they have watered it down and made it in such a way that its become something entirely different.

Yeah some of them divided from the Shia that consider them as non muslims. But you know some Shia scholars permitted alcohol and sex for pleasure too wich are both forbidden in Islam.

Originally Posted by Sham-iLL

Allah said in the last days there will be something like 84 claims of being Islam when truly there is only One Islam.

and in my opinion that one true pure form of Islam is Sunni.

I think the sunni/salafi are the purest form aas they follow the sunna wich is the teachings of the prophet Muhammad the only one amongst all those that is mentionned in the Quran (the same Quran they believe in too).

[Edgar Erebus]

Nah, I read a bit and it's same irrelevant bullshit that divides Catholics and Orthodox Christians and other sects. Dig a bit deeper and you'll find that there is a purely human, materialistic reason for seeking out or making up differences and blowing them out of proportion.

And yeah, Shias are (generally speaking) the most violent sect of Islam, but let's not forget that for quite some time before 1979 the most militant were Wahhabis. Khomeini (that fucking genius) actually managed to brainwash dozens of millions of people into raving religious madmen. Impressive, really.

[prof zooruka]

What are salafi`s ?????



peace be with you !

[Hellspawn]

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

What are salafi`s ?????



peace be with you !

Salafi from "salaf" for the "predecessors", those who knew the prophet and the 1 or 2 generations that came after him.


Did I answered your question about the shia and bin laden?

[prof zooruka]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn

Salafi from "salaf" for the "predecessors", those who knew the prophet and the 1 or 2 generations that came after him.


Did I answered your question about the shia and bin laden?

Yeah thnks for that hell !!!!!!

hell, so from what your telling me there are no more salafi`s anymore, are there any who claim salafiism today, maybe not the exact meaning but as a way of proving they are practicing a pure form of islam, I think I have heard of salafist movements in algeria no sure thought, and I think caribbean people use the word alot, but im not sure if they use it in an islamic context ????


peace be with you !

[Hellspawn]

Originally Posted by prof zooruka

Yeah thnks for that hell !!!!!!

hell, so from what your telling me there are no more salafi`s anymore, are there any who claim salafiism today, maybe not the exact meaning but as a way of proving they are practicing a pure form of islam, I think I have heard of salafist movements in algeria no sure thought, and I think caribbean people use the word alot, but im not sure if they use it in an islamic context ????


peace be with you !

It is impossible to practice salafism today (the word took lately, since bin laden and al quaeda, more importance than it should have and a meaning that almost equal to jihad in the media when it is originally only meaning the predecessor or the ancestors practices). It is impossible to practice salafism because of the situation of the world today and because of many factors that keep from practicing the sharia of islam (the law of islam according to the book) under the veil of the so called democracy (when theres no democracy in 80% of the arabic countries) and globalism. For example it is forbidden in islam to profit of the interest that the banks give to their costumers (profit which comes free from compensation) but all the banks in the world do that. It is also permitted in Islam for those who can afford it to marry 4 women but a big majority of arabic countries forbid it by law. My country for example forbid growing a bear and police can arrest you and make you sign a paper that says that you will shave your face and promise to not grow a bear anymore .

Salafism is a world used by alot of factions ; shia have their salafis, sunnis have their salafi, etc... it means the people that practice the first (and maybe the pure) form of religion related to this faction.

It's hard today to live as the ancestors because the world progressed alot but theres some utopic thinkers that think this is possible.

[prof zooruka]

Originally Posted by Hellspawn

My country for example forbid growing a bear and police can arrest you and make you sign a paper that says that you will shave your face and promise to not grow a bear anymore .

.

what country is that ????? france ?????


peace be with you !

[prof zooruka]

hell, who at the moment practices the purest form of islam... The taliban, the wahabis of saudi arabia, al qaeda, katoubism..... ??????


peace be with you !