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Old 05-24-2016, 08:28 PM   #1
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http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016...uld-soon-face/

Up to 2 yrs in prison

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Old 05-24-2016, 08:34 PM   #2
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Honestly it's about time.

A trans person is killed every 29 hours. These are the society's most neglected, most lumpenized and at-risk people. If you're going to have hate crime laws, it just doesn't make sense to not have had extended the legislation to include them as well.

Bigotry is very often prefacing violence, whether legitimized through political rhetoric or directly before or during acts of violence. With Trump's remarks against Mexicans, there was a sudden rise in hate crimes involving physical violence to latin-americans (most famously, the homeless man who was beaten bloody by two Trump supporters). This type of speech needs not be normalized and tolerated. On the one hand you have individual acts of violence against marginalized people, on the other you have hate speech which potentially motivates others to do the same in multiplicity.

This might be the first thing Trudeau has done correctly, but it's shortsighted as there are underlying societal issues that need to be addressed to prevent hate speech altogether, not just criminalizing it.

But this is characteristic of capitalism -- criminalizing and jailing people without analyzing the contradictions which establish its raison d'etre. Such as if somebody steals a loaf of bread, the capitalist state would be very effective of putting the person in jail, but the throngs of capitalist economic coercion which drives a person to steal a loaf of bread would not face trial.

As long as there is capitalism, as long as there is an alienated working class pitted in intraspecific competition for what scarce resources the bourge leave us after extracting our surplus value in the labour force, and once again through commodity exchange, there will be racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism and so on. This is an economic battleground where we view each other as adversarial rather than our real class enemy, much to their benefit.

The class stratification can also pronounce itself through different sectors of society, and there are very (historical and) material reasons behind it. For example, speaking generally and without being entirely nuanced: the bourgeois in the western anglosphere being disproportionately white, blacks disproportionately proletarianized and lumpenized, trans people disproportionaly lumpenized altogether by virtue of being unable to find work due to the social stigmas involved with them (and them turning to illicit forms of income like prostitution). This leads people to have very surface-level assumptions about these people (whites are well-off, blacks are lazy, trans are prostitutes and addicts), which breeds and reinforces bigotry.

Viewed dialectically, these are the material reasons underlying Malcolm X' famous quote "you can't have capitalism without racism," if you extend it all forms of bigotry. So long as capitalism exists, we'll continue to see swastikas spraypainted on synagogues, sikhs being attacked, mosque windows being broken, mexicans mobbed, blacks shot by police at alarming rates, trans people murdered and neglected by our healthcare systems to the point where they have an avoidable highest HIV rates. The poverty of capitalism creates a feedback loop which reinforces bigotted attitudes, which then translate into violence and murder of innocent people. It's truly a wicked condition.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:40 PM   #3
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Correct that's globally. I think 53 deaths in 2015, and most happened in South America.



So you wanna play the numbers game?

Do you understand what these tables mean?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ender_2012.xls

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-6

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...10shrtbl06.xls



For example this means blacks and whites kill at the same rate (mostly each other... black|black...white|white), however the rate of black on white murder is more than double the rate of white on black murder for 2013 (409 to 189).

These charts don't even factor in the victims of violent crime or rape. The Bureau and the DOJ + census have other sections for those stats. Also after 2013 they stopped lumping hispanics/latinos in with the white population for offenders and victims.

So by your logic, should the US follow Trudeau's lead and propose a bill to criminalize any derogatory speech. Basically lock up every black man or woman and comedian who shouts "you fuckin' peckerwood crackas!" or VICE VERSA?

I'm sure spending trillions on expanding the already massive prison complex to funnel in people over mean speech won't completely destabilize the North American continent or anything.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:50 PM   #4
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lol jesus christ, if this is real it's pretty sad.
edit: it's real, that's pretty sad
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:05 PM   #5
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I'm sure why so much emphasis is being put on like 0.001 percent of the population in 2015-2016.

Wouldn't it make sense to focus on the homeless segment who are verbally harassed, beaten and killed by like the HOUR?
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideshow Bob View Post
Correct that's globally. I think 53 deaths in 2015, and most happened in South America.



So you wanna play the numbers game?

Do you understand what these tables mean?

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...ender_2012.xls

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-6

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...10shrtbl06.xls

For example this means blacks and whites kill at the same rate (mostly each other... black|black...white|white), however the rate of black on white murder is more than double the rate of white on black murder for 2013 (409 to 189).

These charts don't even factor in the victims of violent crime or rape. The Bureau and the DOJ + census have other sections for those stats. Also after 2013 they stopped lumping hispanics/latinos in with the white population for offenders and victims.

So by your logic, should the US follow Trudeau's lead and propose a bill to criminalize any derogatory speech. Basically lock up every black man or woman and comedian who shouts "you fuckin' peckerwood crackas!" or VICE VERSA?

I'm sure spending trillions on expanding the already massive prison complex to funnel in people over mean speech won't completely destabilize the North American continent or anything.



Sideshow Bob, where did you get the idea this is exclusively about interracial murder? Where does that fit in the larger narrative of the post? It's as if I'm pointing at something, but your eyes are fixated on my finger.

Since you're fascinated with making this about the topic, racist bigotry doesn't only pronounce itself in ways limited to violence leading to murder. At times it's murder, at times it's violence, at times it's psychological abuse, at times it's just a systemic lack of access (landlords quoting black visitors with higher rent prices, employers skipping ethnic names, black girls being suspended for natural hair, etc).

You seem to have missed the part where I said this only makes sense insofar as hate speech legislation exists, but is a shortsighted solution characteristic of a capitalism which is effective of criminalizing the byproducts of class society, but not the contradictions which make it so.

Feel free to re-read my post, as I may be guilty of having edited it a dozen times before you finished writing yours.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:32 PM   #7
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Sideshow Bob, where did you get the idea this is exclusively about interracial murder?
I didn't get that idea retard. Apparently you saw some links and a chart and had a meltdown.

You are talking about legislation to police speech which has far reaching consequences across the board.

So you used homicide rates of transgenders as some sort of qualifier, for why this policy should be made effective immediately.

I posted rates of interracial homicide. A much larger and apparently taboo issue at least in the U.S.

Are you implying this Orwellian law should be applied selectively in your country or EVENTUALLY the way you see it "globally". Are some scenarios of homicide more important or fashionable than others?

I don't think anyone read your rehashed rant about Capitalism though.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:47 PM   #8
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Ok now that I've read your multi-revision posts I see what you are trying to get at, and that you believe it's a short-sighted decision.


However I'm not convinced ridding the planet of a Capitalist system is going to be some sort of silver bullet to quell racism or victimization.
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Old 05-24-2016, 10:48 PM   #9
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This is a great read on the topics we touched on in the last post, regarding racial inequality, seperate from violence (doesn't have a revolutionary outlook altogether, but good nonetheless). Enjoy, whoever feels like they may benefit























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Old 05-24-2016, 10:56 PM   #10
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Ok now that I've read your multi-revision posts I see what you are trying to get at, and that you believe it's a short-sighted decision.


However I'm not convinced ridding the planet of a Capitalist system is going to be some sort of silver bullet to quell racism or victimization.
Thanks for addressing my edits, I'm glad you could see where I'm coming from Bob.

I have a reply to this but please allow me a moment ~
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Old 05-24-2016, 11:35 PM   #11
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However I'm not convinced ridding the planet of a Capitalist system is going to be some sort of silver bullet to quell racism or victimization.
It won't, at least not without generations of socialism putting a concentrated effort in eradicating it at a state level (re-education, exposure, representation, ideology, etc).

Traces of ethno-chauvinism may eliminate themselves long after this, along with dignified living conditions provided by a necessity-based economy that provides for each individual, empowering communities through radical democracy and workers councils, no longer making it advantageous or "natural" as determined by our economic system to view each other as adversarial competition.

This is of course in comparison to capitalism's marginalization reinforcing itself through class lines that leads people to make surface level assumptions, breeding and reinforcing chauvinistic attitudes (for example "all whites are well off," "blacks and mexicans are poor because they're lazy," "trans people are prostitutes and addicts").

In the Soviet Union for example, coming out of Tzarist russia where these contradictions were rife, racism and anti-semetism were as a result banned altogether, and the punishment was strict.

Here's some literary references. I don't like the editorialization personally, but the accounts are real (and cited in the fourth photo).









Then there's what Stalin himself (whatever your and my qualms may be about him, he's relevant to this insofar as he was the leader of the Soviet Union) had to say during the time regarding racism:



Just a small excerpt from the book "Becoming Soviet Jews" by Elissa Bemporad on the status of working Jews in the Soviet Union, which rose dramatically, contrary to their lives under the Tzar:



(I have a million of these pictures but this is perhaps the most to-the-point from the book)

This is an great video on the black Soviet experience. Some of the people in it are wack academics, but the stories retold by the descendents of black migrants to the USSR are great and corroborate the first four images above.



Marxism and its traditions of internationalism provided an ideological basis at the state level in the USSR which guaranteed blacks and minorities like Jews full integration, security, employment and education and an absolute intolerance to nationalist, ethno-chauvinist, racist attitudes bilaterally (from the bottom up and by the state).

It's not until the fall of the Soviet Union and the restoration of capitalism, that we see today Russia having become the cesspool of neo-nazism and racist violence it now is.

It's no wonder he Malcolm said "you can't have capitalism without racism."
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Old 05-25-2016, 12:08 AM   #12
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By the way, I edited the above like a dozen times as well. Hope the latest version reaches you. I'm always in a constant mode of revising my wording or adding secondary thoughts.

I hope you'll forgive me if I don't reply to this thread anymore, I have midterms coming up and I already spent far too much time on this. I'm sorry for my harsh tone earlier as well.

You seem like you might be interested, so if you haven't read any Marxist literature, I can give you some recommended readings that would explain far better than my poor reiterations of them. Just tell me which angle you wish to approach it from (economics, philosophy, historical implementations, anthropologically, the basics, analysis on current events, whatever). That would help us have more constructive discussions about this in the future once we've established some basic premises.

All the best.
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Old 05-25-2016, 04:00 AM   #13
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good luck with those midterms

and the overthrow of capitalist societies around the world

lel
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Old 05-25-2016, 10:07 AM   #14
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Is Jaden's Mini Skirt a troll or for real? I'm not going to read the posts but they're well put together, though the consistency in message is trollish
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Old 05-25-2016, 11:05 AM   #15
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dude actually believes communism will save the world

so yeah ...
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