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Old 10-11-2005, 08:39 PM   #1
noel411
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Default Logic

This thread was sparked by the "i doubt anyone in gen chat would get this.. <showthread.php?t=10226> " thread. I think it's astounding the degree to which logic and common sense has gone amiss amongst so called "seekers of wisdom". The big problem with this being that without a grasp of the concept of logic, "knowledge" will get you nowhere. I'm not a regular visitor to these forums, but I have been an occasional browser for long enough to have picked up a reasonable overview of the sort of discussions that go on here, and the sort of people who frequent these places. Seems to me that a lot of people who post here get so caught up in their "knowledge" that they fail to acknowledge the basic principle of logic, which then leads to an inability to discern between fact and fiction.

The thread I referred to is a classic example of logic gone amiss.

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Old 10-11-2005, 11:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Logic

But plenty of people got that puzzle right.
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Old 10-12-2005, 12:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: Logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
This thread was sparked by the "i doubt anyone in gen chat would get this.. <showthread.php?t=10226> " thread. I think it's astounding the degree to which logic and common sense has gone amiss amongst so called "seekers of wisdom". The big problem with this being that without a grasp of the concept of logic, "knowledge" will get you nowhere. I'm not a regular visitor to these forums, but I have been an occasional browser for long enough to have picked up a reasonable overview of the sort of discussions that go on here, and the sort of people who frequent these places. Seems to me that a lot of people who post here get so caught up in their "knowledge" that they fail to acknowledge the basic principle of logic, which then leads to an inability to discern between fact and fiction.

The thread I referred to is a classic example of logic gone amiss.

oh shit you hit it right on the head
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Old 10-12-2005, 12:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Logic

I do agree though.
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Old 10-12-2005, 12:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Logic

Quote:
But plenty of people got that puzzle right
It's not about that thread, that's just an example. However, since you mention it, plenty of people also couldn't figure it out, and almost everybody at least struggled and seemed to think it was some sort of challenge, despite the fact it was the most simple of logical problems.

This thread is about the whole concept of logic itself though, and it's apparent lack of application by a lot of people who seek "knowledge". I personally see logic as the most important tool with which to learn, but sadly it also seems to be a largely overlooked aspect of furthering ones "knowledge" and understanding.

What good is reading about other peoples views, opinions, discoveries, portrayals, studies etc, if you don't have the capacity to approach it with your own uninhibited perspective?

To put it simply, I think a lot of people allow themselves to clutter their head with a whole lot of shit they don't even understand, while ignoring basic thought processes and techniques.
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Old 10-12-2005, 12:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Logic

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel411
To put it simply, I think a lot of people allow themselves to clutter their head with a whole lot of shit they don't even understand, while ignoring basic thought processes and techniques.
alot of people have alot of problems


thats one
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Old 10-12-2005, 06:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: Logic

the ability to retain information (ie - history - memorizing books - memorizing dates and names)
has nothing to do with intelligence

a substantial amount of evidence can be put forth to challenge any historical 'fact'


(a better stance would be to doubt everything that you read
unless you wrote it
and even then it may still be wise to doubt it)


good thread topic
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: Logic

Logic is a left brain function. It negates intuition which is a right brain function. One can logically come to the wrong conclusion, but abstractly extrapolate the correct conclusion, and vice versa.

Both must be used.

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Old 10-12-2005, 11:23 AM   #9
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Default Re: Logic

Logic does not conflict with intuition. People just use them wrong. I practice martial arts. Logically, I've got all of my techniques written down in a notebook somewhere. Where'd I put that anyways? Regardless, they're there. I already know what to do in every situation and thats as it should be. Someone tries to play, and in reality, they were beaten months ago when I wrote my game down. Thats on a logical basis. If player does X, I need to do Y. If to do Y, I need to Z. Therefore I'll do Z when he does X. However, I approach things from an intuitive angle at the same time, only not to the extent of being illogical. Logic and intuition are not equals in most situations, especially if one has REAL logic working for them. If I work on 100% logic in my game, I'll probably win at my current level. I'd be at a disadvantage, but I'd be alright. If I worked at 100% intuition, I'm gonna get assraped. I'm gonna get dealt with in all of 5 seconds. Now, where does intuition come in? On top of a logical base. Lets say I fuck up. Thats when I let my intuition get to work. The same moves that I've broken down logically all of a sudden start coming from odd angles without thought. New moves start popping up. My intuition has essentially been reprogrammed to draw upon a new vision in the back of my head. If it drew on my original vision, I'd lose 100% of the time.

Now, how can this be applied to the things we're discussing in KTL? Consider you're looking at race. Person A takes the bible literally and hold that as his worldview. Person B takes evolution. Person C is a Lamarckist. The question is, why are blacks black? Person A's intuition will tell him that they are obviously children of Ham. Person B will assume that the melanin is somehow useful. Person C will say that they got burnt and each generation inherited the dark skin. A truely logical look will prove at least two of these guys wrong. So consider now, that "intuition" is essentially a shortcut using one's worldview as a guide. Thats useful a good portion of the time, but after a point it gets ridiculous, especially the more extreme the worldview gets.
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Old 10-12-2005, 11:54 AM   #10
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Default Re: Logic

I would argue the opposite.

Logic is what led invaders of Kemet to incorrectly conclude that they worshipped many gods. Their logical conclusion was based on their own Judeo-Christian and Islamic belief systems.

Logic based upon religious texts is NOT intuition, it is logic based on a certain foundation, even if it is erroneus.

Logic based on scientific experimentation results is more reliable, but intuition is usually what guides the scientists to experiment in the first place.

Logic and its systematic schemes is what led people to improper approaches to the 'rose petal' example. A more abstract, symbolic, intuitive approach- one seeing the allegory, which is a right brain function- worked better than any logical, formulaic approach.

The example of the 'rose petal' was not a logic exercise, it was a symbology exercise.

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Old 10-12-2005, 11:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Logic

But I definitely agree that they should work together.

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Old 10-12-2005, 01:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Logic

id like to agree with the thread start.. definitely EVERYBODY makes the mistake to go on a quest, yet without understanding the whole concept in general. that is because humans are simply like that.


let me point out though as well... logic is a concept if not understood.. what makes an argument logical?

knowledge constitutes a valid thoughtful sentence, but it may seem unlogical to some.. and then to others seem absolutely god damn true.

that is why.. whatever is said... it must be questioned critically by ourselves.. therefore we create a logical picture of what has been said.

our logic is a benchmark to see the depths of a dropped degree of so called knwoledge!
but the benchmark changes too... therefore question ur selves as well..

peace n blesings
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:33 PM   #13
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Default Re: Logic

noel, I know what you are getting at....but dont know how you related this to that other thread.

What you have mentioned, there is a whole field of study related to it.

You are right in a way.....and some people will accept some things that some people will say....even on a public forum.

However, you chose the wrong words to use. If you noticed, the terms that you use are constantly being defined by the people using them in this forum. Using terms like "logic", "knowledge", and "intelligence" could mean different things depending on the context. Even in this thread examples are given.

I think what you mean by "logic" is simply people's ability to reason, for which theses are sound and which are fallicious instead of accepting everything said in a topic you know very little about. Not everyone can do this....if everyone could, the world's societies would be much different.
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:43 PM   #14
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Thumbs up Re: Logic

who da masta?!? SHO-NUFF !
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Old 10-12-2005, 03:48 PM   #15
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Default Re: Logic

thanks
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