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Thread: Wu-Tang Clan: Of Mics and Men Parts 1-4

  1. #31
    God's Replica Mumm Ra's Avatar
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    agree the series couldve been one or two episodes longer. i think it wouldve been cool to dedicate one episode to showcase the reach and influence Wu really had in the 90's so this generation is aware, including the affiliates, they had a hit videogame, ect. shit they even made playstation controllers in the shape of the W

    still have to applaud the work done though. its rare to learn and see new things about Wu at this point as much of a stan as I've been for decades


  2. #32
    Hungry Hyena From Medina SL33's Avatar
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    Power should have gotten more space, after all he ran the business component of the Wu and stil does. Mook's sequences were interesting as well, sounds like a vey nice dude.

    Also, It's a shame that Sunz of MAn, Gravediggaz, Killarmy and Royal Fam were not mentioned whereas the fourth episode had like a 15 minutes of stupid back and forth regarding OUTIS.

    Certain ventures like Black and White, Sony Playstation game were also skipped as long as the the fact the the Wu is the most influental group when it comes to global hip hop. Wu Tang is like a religion in Brazil for example.Furthermore, The W was a successful multiplatinum album and for some reason it remains in the shadows.

    After they got their publishing, they lacked creative control. Hence the decline.

    I hated how the Roc ppl moved around with Dirty like he was a clown or something.






    And lol Cilva has a few accents in his pockets
    Last edited by SL33; 05-16-2019 at 04:12 PM.




  3. #33
    King Fuckhead FatherSl!me's Avatar
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    Cool

    I’m just glad to see the clan shit on that maggot & his bullshit copy & paste album. I logged in after years just to say that. I’m out ✌

  4. #34

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    edit: already found the answer...
    Last edited by Raizoh; 05-16-2019 at 06:36 PM.

  5. #35
    Kung Fu Alter Ego num2son's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mumm Ra View Post
    agree the series couldve been one or two episodes longer. i think it wouldve been cool to dedicate one episode to showcase the reach and influence Wu really had in the 90's so this generation is aware, including the affiliates, they had a hit videogame, ect. shit they even made playstation controllers in the shape of the W

    still have to applaud the work done though. its rare to learn and see new things about Wu at this point as much of a stan as I've been for decades
    No doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
    The W was a successful multiplatinum album and for some reason it remains in the shadows.
    Definitely

    This should have been part of it.
    https://vimeo.com/29449858
    Quote Originally Posted by soul controller View Post
    i remember random shit i dont need to know lol
    "Who's the wickedest, street officialist, Guess, Gortex
    Lex is the crispiest, ice the vidiculous
    Peep and look, the unexplainable'll keep ya shook
    High illism, the realism got you hooked"
    AZ - Doe or Die (Rza Remix)

  6. #36
    Kung Fu Alter Ego num2son's Avatar
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    The documentary was felt short by 2 episodes, more talk with divine, The W album, the Wu Logo and the impact the wu had when the west coast was dominating.
    And why the heck redman and busta rhymes wasn't interviewed or seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by soul controller View Post
    i remember random shit i dont need to know lol
    "Who's the wickedest, street officialist, Guess, Gortex
    Lex is the crispiest, ice the vidiculous
    Peep and look, the unexplainable'll keep ya shook
    High illism, the realism got you hooked"
    AZ - Doe or Die (Rza Remix)

  7. #37

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    *SPOILER ALERT*

    I'm going to just review one part at a time.

    So my takeaways from part 1...

    I think I never considered just how close Wu Tang was from never happening. It seems that Rza, U-God, and Inspectah Deck were perhaps the closest to getting caught up in the prison system. It sounded as though Rza's older brother Divine was hustling good enough to help finance some of the early stages from behind the scenes such as obtaining equipment and such. Wu-Tang's early music did speak of struggle and hunger so none of that was a surprise. In the interviews you can tell that most of them did not have stable upbringings. It sounds as though most of them were raised by their mothers in unstable environments, moved around a lot, had intermittent or else non-existent relationships with their fathers. It was cool listening to Masta Killa talk about how he connected with his dad by listening to the records his father left behind. It speaks to how so many black women make poor choices in who they have sex with and reproduce with. It also speaks to how these sort of demoKrat section 8 housing projects (modern slave quarters on demoKrat plantations) truly do destroy black families. Rza described the projects as a "police state" which is similar to how I describe it as a plantation. I used to blame black men, then I blamed black women, but now I moreso blame the DemoKKKrat party and believe this shit was setup this way under demoKKKrat Lyndon Johnson and then undoing it became the third rail of politics just like social security and medicare/healthcare. I truly believe that the white elitists have black people right where they want them. When a black man says he's a Republican they treat him like a runaway slave. I still blame black men and women for having a slave mentality and perhaps being the obedient or willing or passive slave on this DemoKrat plantation, beholden to their masters. I think that when black people make the DemoKKKrat party EARN their vote, instead of being a 90% demoKKKrat monolithic voting block where Hillary Clinton can call a former KKK leader her "mentor" and STILL get 90% of the black vote, then black people will make another leap in America.

    The first part of the documentary convincingly shows that rap really was, for them, their only ticket out of those projects. It was all or nothing. It allowed them to focus on the one way they could get out. The camaraderie between them is deep. It truly is something special that Wu-Tang has never broken up. That's rare in music as a whole. Just about every band ever, in every genre, breaks up after a couple albums. Not Wu-Tang. They are brothers for life.

    There's a short bit about the "black man is god" 5% nation of Islam stuff, but part 1 doesn't dive into it to much. I always thought that the "black man is god" but let's sell my fellow black man crack cocaine and shoot him or rob him if the opportunity presents itself was a very hypocritical and bullshit position and I still think that. I believe that Malcolm X exposed the nation of islam. MALCOLM X: “The Nation of Islam Is A FRAUD” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMrugCUFMJI I remember reading about how Mohammad Ali and Malcolm X had a falling out because Mohammad Ali was still loyal to the movement whereas Malcolm X realized it was bullshit and exposed Elijah Muhammad as a hypocrite who used women and profited for himself and didn't abide by the teachings. Malcolm X also tried to expose the DemoKKKrat party and called black demoKKKrats "chumps." Sadly, black panthers and the 5% nation of Islam played a role and maybe it is fair to say that they were responsible for assassinating Malcolm X. I think the black community would have been far better off coming to some of the realizations Malcolm X came to in the latter part of his life when he had a revelation and changed his ideology from his militant black origins to a more peaceful, examining approach. Malcolm X was insistent on black people being independent and not trusting the government or becoming loyal to either political party. The black community ultimately rejected Malcolm X and his teachings. They moved on to the demoKKKrat plantation, became dependent on government, became a monolithic voting block for the DemoKKKrat party, and continued to follow in the hypocrisies of Elijah Mohammad such as honoring women but not sticking by her when you have children, not marrying her, cheating on her, etc.

    On the flip side, I realize how the 5% teachings helped Wu Tang so much. It kind of taught them that black people have worth. That black is beautiful. Self empowerment. The value of education, knowledge, wisdom, understanding. It's where some of them got virtue. U-God explained it well. And Rza said it helped free their minds but they still didn't have the economic freedom. All these things are very positive. This segment is immediately followed by them talking how they were selling crack to their fellow black man. It was a noticeable contrast. Black man is god but let me sell him crack.

    Moving on...I thought it was cool hearing them talk about the regular ass jobs they worked. U-God was a janitor. Selling newspapers. Sweeping floors. Meth working in tourist restaurant by Statue of Liberty. It's cool that these guys never forgot where they came from. They didn't just get rich and famous and abandon where they came from.

    I never really knew about the role John Mook Gibbons played. It was cool hearing him talk about how he tried to initially promote Wu-Tang.

    The way they setup their original contract was really smart. It seemed that Rza and Gza learned enough about the industry to avoid some of the pitfalls other artists get trapped in.

    What else? Rza looks just like his mom. ODB's older brother sounded like a cool cat. It was funny how ODB's mom says she still doesn't like rap. Rza nearly getting pinned 8 years for that gun charge sounds like it was the turning point that made him go all in on the group Wu-Tang. Them talking about the first time hearing themselves on the radio was great because they all remembered it so clearly.

    There's much they have yet to touch on. Not much talk yet about production methods. Beats. Sampling. Records. Where's Mathematics? How they came up with the Wu-Tang symbol. Not much talk yet about Kung-Fu. You don't hear much about their families, girlfriends, wives, children. Solo projects. I'll expect these topics to come up in the following parts.

  8. #38
    Hungry Hyena From Medina SL33's Avatar
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    Ghost has a nasty scar on the left side of his neck.




  9. #39

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    Sense-a, this is 2019. Your racism is appalling. Why do you hate african americans and muslims so much? What have they done to you?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Give peace a chance View Post
    Sense-a, this is 2019. Your racism is appalling. Why do you hate african americans and muslims so much? What have they done to you?
    I'm not racist in the least bit. I haven't said anything racist. Muslims have done far more harm to blacks Africans than white people ever did. And I don't condone of a religion that worships a pedophile as a prophet. Sorry. What does that make me? Intolerant of pedophilia and a throwback religion that still treats women as second class citizens? As a father of daughters myself, I don't want my daughter to be treated the way Muslim cultures still treat women. And you should let my mixed children know their father's a racist. LOL What does that mean? I'm racist against my own children and their black mother?

    Face it, your race baiting bullshit doesn't work with me. Argue the content of what I have to say instead of trying to call me a racist and walk off like you won a debate.

  11. #41

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    Here's the rest of my review. It's worth about two cents.

    Ghost and Rza argue about who discovered Wu Tang kung fu movies first and the rest of the Clan eggs them on. These two arguing is a lighter moment. Then the documentary talks about how Rza was a visionary for it all. The failed solo projects of Prince Rakeem and Gza words from the genius are described as learning lessons for how they established their next group contract. I actually have these albums, lol.

    Then we begin to get introduced to the business side. Mook still narrating as promoter. But we get introduced to Mike Lask McDonald, Power, Divine, Sophia Chang, Steve Ripken .... I notice in a pic an old DMX Oberheim and the SP.

    Ralph McDaniels shows up with the huge Music Box collection. A full basement stacked floor to ceiling with tapes. I wanted to know who filmed the early Wu videos but they never talked about it. Then we learn how CREAM was their breakthrough single. U-God's son gets shot in 94. Cute kid. Earlier in the segment Raekwon was preaching an Us versus Them attitude about the police. Well, if your kids are getting shot, obviously there's guns and violence in the neighborhood. The police didn't shoot U-God's son. Who did you call when he got shot? The police. The police have to do their job because a bunch of black men who think they are "gods" are shooting each other and shooting 2 year old kids. I don't get the whole us versus them mentality when you know why the police gotta be there. You're grown men now and should have a higher understanding of this.

    End of part two sets up what will become a vilification of Divine. He admits that he put business first and admits being a tyrant. Part 3 picks up with Divine. But they sort of fast foward through the solo successes of OB4CL, Liquid Swords, Meth, Ironman, Return to 36... Then the making of Wu Tang Forever then the quitting of the RATM tour which I hadn't known about before. I never knew about Ghostface airing out Hot 97. I have never really liked Hot 97. I can't stand Charlamagne, the Jersey accent girl, Sway, etc.

    Then more footage about blacks versus the police. More evidence that blacks only care about a dead black man if the police were involved. If a black man kills a black man, which is usually the case, no one gives a shit because many black people don't want to take responsibility. Then this is immediately followed by more of the "black man is god" bullshit. Another silly contrast depicting the hypocrisy. Then we learn about ODB beating gun charges. So both he and Rza beat gun charges. For Rza it is apparently a pivot point in his life. But the court system never let go their clutch on ODB. Silly shit like violating him for wearing a vest which is a stupid probation rule that violates a man's right to protect himself. It's also silly that demoKrats are the ones pushing all these strict anti-gun laws, but blacks vote demokrat even though these laws disproportionately hurt black people. Conservatives like me support your 2nd amendment right. DemoKrats who you vote for don't.

    Then we go through the part where it seemed like the Wu wasn't really there for ODB through his incarceration. And they weren't there when ODB was released. This lends credence to the sentiment that Rza and Divine were on the wrong tip. ODB even sheds a tear when his manager tells him Rza and Divine won't release him from his contract. Then his death.

    Part 4 is about villains. Beyond vilifying Divine, we now get to vilify Cilvaringz and martin Shkreli. We finally get an inside look to Mathematics developing the art. We find out he sold the symbol for just $400. Cappadonna finally gets his fair coverage in this. Through it all I think Cappadonna is one of my favorite members throughout the entire duration of the Clan. He and Masta Killa seem the least bitter about everything through it all. U-God and Raekwon and Ghost seem to be some of the most bitter about how some things played out. I always felt that U-God, Inspectah Deck, and Masta Killah kind of got cheated by not getting solo projects until almost 10 years after their first group album.

    So I obviously don't know even half of what really went on and only know bits and pieces from these interviews. But ultimately I don't think Divine totally deserves all the vilificaiton he receives. I think that any manager would have probably got a similar cut. If it wasn't divine it would have been some corporate executive at a record label. I also have doubts that all the members invested their money wisely. The money was getting split a lot of ways so it doesn't sound like most of them got rich off the success of 36 Chambers or Forever. You can see that burning the bridge with Divine resulted in cappadonna driving a cab and being homeless, though they don't talk about that bad part of Cappadonna's career. And when they burned bridges with Divine their solo careers suffered for sure. At least in the short term. So there's probably enough blame to go all around and Divine isn't all good or all bad. But what the fuck do I know. I'm not holding their contracts in hand and reading them.

    Then they get into Cilvaringz and spend a decent amount of time talking about his involvement with Rza. Cilvaringz comes off as an articulate, smart businessman. I wasn't aware how close he was with Rza how they toured the entire world together. A Rza protege. So here's what I think about the Once Upon A Time In Shaolin album. I think it was a smart concept, and unique. It got the Wu tons of PR whether good or bad. It sounds like Rza signed off on it. It sounded like Ghost, Inspectah Deck, Meth, and U-God's manager were the most salty about it. But it's fair to say that they may have been misled. Though Cilvaringz says in the documentary that he personally reached out to all of them or their representatives beforehand. It sounds to me like they're mad because they didn't get more money out of something pitched as a Wu-Tang clan record. How the album was put together doesn't sound all that different from previous Cilvaringz albums that featured Wu appearances/verses.

    And of course the album was bought by the Notorious Martin Shkreli. I actually like Martin Shkreli and consider him a political prisoner. I think people just want to hate his smirking face looking like Adam Scott gone troll. I think that Shkreli raising the price of that medicine is standard for the industry. I am unaware of anyone who has actually died from not receiving the medicine. I think he's an epic, legendary internet troll and if you take it too seriously or get offended then you're the one with the problem, not him. I've heard that the investors in his company actually made money, so suggesting he defrauded them is silly considering how much the Federal government has defrauded people, such as lying and telling Americans opioids weren't addictive for the last 30+ years or bankrupting practically every single Federal insurance scheme. I think Martin Shkreli was vilified because he wasn't a sHillary Clinton supporter. As soon as he offered a reward for a lock of sHillary's hair his bond was revoked and the bias, prejudiced judge threw the book at him. Then it sounds like utter hypocrisy hearing some Wu members happy he's in jail after all the crimes, felonies, gun crimes they got away with in their younger years. Rza shot at people and got off. ODB allegedly shot at police officers and walked. Deck was selling crack to undercover officers and got off light. What did Martin Shkreli do? Make himself and his investors a profit while hurting or harming no one? Overcharging big corporate greedy insurance companies for some medicine that maybe wouldn't have even been produced and available anymore had he not bought the rights to produce it and keep it on the market. Big corporations weren't going to buy rights to manufacture medicine with so few people needing it. They make more money keeping people sick and addicted. Martin Shkreli's goons skit was hilarious and Ghostface still being salty about it isn't a good look. Your fans still know all the lyrics to Ironman and Supreme Clientele. You didn't lose your fans.

    And let's be honest. I am willing to bet that Once Upon A Time In Shaolin is better than at least one of the "official" Wu tang albums. Don't act like you suddenly are concerned with protecting the brand after you have hundreds of artists with wu logos on their albums and some half ass projects such as Method man letting P Diddy produce tracks and Raekwon doing songs with Justin Beiber.

    What else? We find out Masta Killa is related to Marvin Gaye and Nat Turner. No talk about 4th Disciple or Tru Master or any of the Wu fam groups. Much of the Wu Universe is left out. I think the documentary could have elaborated on how Wu Tang created a huge sub-genre to hip hop. Hundreds of Wu afiliates.

    The end of the documentary Wu Tang kind of buries the hatchets. You can tell there are some deep wounds and awkward moments of silence. Hopefully this gave them some time to heal and maybe renew their bonds. I'm hoping this leads to a resurgence in Wu material and better cohesion within the group.

    Props to Sancha Jenkins and Mass Appeal for a good documentary on my favorite hip hop group. I learned some new things about the generals. My only criticism might be that the last couple episodes dwelled on some negative things that deserved attention but shouldn't have taken over the plot. However, perhaps the animosity between the members is real and Sancha is just giving us an accurate documentation.

    I think I learned that even if you become famous and rich that the money still might not last and you still got problems. And the Wu Universe brought a whole lot of different people together which is a good thing. Wu Tang is the best group in hip hop history and if anyone deserves a documentary in hip hop it is them. I think there's more to explore and more to their story and think that much of the documentary focused on the 90-97 and then fast forwarded through 2000 to 2018. I would have liked to learn more about their philosophies, spiritual beliefs, their own families and children and being fathers, members being dedicated vegans, more about the artists they look up to, and more about some of the positive ways they've given back to the community outside of just music.

  12. #42
    CEh Killa Bee MikeAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SL33 View Post
    Ghost has a nasty scar on the left side of his neck.
    "the bullet wound on my kneck is a ruger scar" GFK from "Superstar"

    It's from when he was shot.

  13. #43
    Veteran Member LordReveal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sense-A View Post


    There's a short bit about the "black man is god" 5% nation of Islam stuff, but part 1 doesn't dive into it to much. I always thought that the "black man is god" but let's sell my fellow black man crack cocaine and shoot him or rob him if the opportunity presents itself was a very hypocritical and bullshit position and I still think that. I believe that Malcolm X exposed the nation of islam. MALCOLM X: “The Nation of Islam Is A FRAUD” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMrugCUFMJI I remember reading about how Mohammad Ali and Malcolm X had a falling out because Mohammad Ali was still loyal to the movement whereas Malcolm X realized it was bullshit and exposed Elijah Muhammad as a hypocrite who used women and profited for himself and didn't abide by the teachings. Malcolm X also tried to expose the DemoKKKrat party and called black demoKKKrats "chumps." Sadly, black panthers and the 5% nation of Islam played a role and maybe it is fair to say that they were responsible for assassinating Malcolm X. I think the black community would have been far better off coming to some of the realizations Malcolm X came to in the latter part of his life when he had a revelation and changed his ideology from his militant black origins to a more peaceful, examining approach. Malcolm X was insistent on black people being independent and not trusting the government or becoming loyal to either political party. The black community ultimately rejected Malcolm X and his teachings. They moved on to the demoKKKrat plantation, became dependent on government, became a monolithic voting block for the DemoKKKrat party, and continued to follow in the hypocrisies of Elijah Mohammad such as honoring women but not sticking by her when you have children, not marrying her, cheating on her, etc.

    On the flip side, I realize how the 5% teachings helped Wu Tang so much. It kind of taught them that black people have worth. That black is beautiful. Self empowerment. The value of education, knowledge, wisdom, understanding. It's where some of them got virtue. U-God explained it well. And Rza said it helped free their minds but they still didn't have the economic freedom. All these things are very positive. This segment is immediately followed by them talking how they were selling crack to their fellow black man. It was a noticeable contrast. Black man is god but let me sell him crack.
    OK so here’s the thing. Every 5 Percenter for the most part has gotten Knowledge Of Self the same way...by someone who introduced us to the Knowledge and lessons while we were in the street. Allah (the man formerly known as Clarence 13X in the Nation Of Islam) broke away from the NOI for the sole purpose of reaching those that the NOI were not reaching...the youth in the street. So Clarence changed his name to Allah and started teaching the street youth that the black man is God and he called his first 9 students The 5 Percenters (based on the teachig that our ppl can be broken down in three percenteges (the 85% who are the blind, deaf and dumb majority that believe in a mystery God in the sky, the 10% who KNOW the truth but conceal it from the 85%, and finally the 5%...those who know AND teach the truth of the TRUE and LIVING God). The NOI (with their clean look, suits and bow-ties) appealed more to the older folk...they were not reaching the youth. So when Allah left the muslim temple and started teaching the youth in Harlem, he came to them as they were (similar to how in the Bible, Jesus came to the people AS the people). So Allah would be teaching the youth while smoking blunts with them and rolling dice with them. And thats the beauty of the 5%....each and every 5 Percenter is at a different stage in his growth & development compared to other 5 Percenters. There may be certain 5 Percenters engaged in illegal activities but they may still be at an early stage of their growth & development. Method Man is a perfect example... in the documentary he stated that he HATED selling that shit (crack) to his people. At that point in time he was young and first getting into the Knowledge so it at least gave him a sense of consciousness (knowing that what he was doing was wrong) where as someone without Knowledge doesnt have that sense of consciousness and responsibility. After getting a bit of Knowledge, Mef had a determined idea that he would NOT be selling crack to his people for much longer. I remember when I first got Knowledge Of Self, I would get teased by my homies like “cmon my nigga, is u seeiously leaving this shit” and my answer was always YES. And I eventually did. I got my shit together, went to school, and I have been working for the NYC Dept Of Education for 15 years now. And there are many other countless 5 Percenters who left the streets alone and went on to go to colege and get their degrees and become doctors, engineers, lawyers, ect. Are there 5 Percenters still engaged in street shit? Of course. But then there is also those 5 Percenters that are in the steets, doing their DUTY as 5 Percenters and teaching the youth in these streets. And by the way, you also mentioned in your post that ODB’s brother seems like a cool cat and let me tell you...Ramsey is one of the coolest dudes you can ever meet. Thats my dude right there.
    Last edited by LordReveal; 05-28-2019 at 01:30 AM.
    The Holy Temple Is The Mental

  14. #44

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    Ramsey... he's the drummer right?

  15. #45
    CEh Killa Bee MikeAll's Avatar
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    Default give the drummer some!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mythrandir View Post
    Ramsey... he's the drummer right?
    Yessir

    Theres prolly more but he def did drums on this beautiful composition from "Iron Flag"
    Last edited by MikeAll; 05-28-2019 at 04:45 AM. Reason: fixing embed link error

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